diversity

I would love to see it happen. I have my doubts though. I believe that you can make people polite at gunpoint, which is what we have now, but not sure you can make them respectful or pleasant. I also think the culture of terse/rough communication runs deeper than something that we allowed to happen. I think it might be representative of the population we have. I can't think of a geeky webforum that's nicer than Wikipedia. That's why moderators at geeky forums might focus on swear words and flame wars, but they can't stop people from throwing intellectual jabs at each other.

But if you had a proposal, I'd definitely sign on. The key is finding a way to get that "buy-in" that you're talking about... maybe some kind of viral campaign or something.

Randomran15:48, 6 July 2010

Inasmuch as there have been some thoughtful responses on an apparent problem in the en.wikipedia community, all of you have missed an important subtlety to my point. (Maybe it's just because I did a poor job of explaining it.) My issue is not that we Wikipedians ought to be more civil to each other (although there are times when the appropriate response is, "Fuck you"), but that many Wikipedians fail to even take a moment to learn the basics about the person she/he is debating with -- which leads to faux pas almost as glaring as an established editor putting a warning template on Jimmy Wales' talk page. (Not that Wales hasn't made edits I've considered stupid, but I wouldn't tell him as much with a template.)

If Wikipedians would first take a quick look at another's user page, associated talk page, & edit history -- all of which could be done in a matter of a couple minutes -- then use that information in how she/he respond to that person, I believe it would be an important step forward. Not only would people come to address one another more intelligently, but they would more likely write persuasive messages. And if enough of them did so on a regular basis, we might reach the point where Noraft's crusade for civility would be worth pursuing.

Llywrch04:51, 9 July 2010

I'm tempted to ban all or most message templates. They tend to be completely ineffective. New user templates tend to come off as impersonal, robotic, and unwelcoming. And templating the regulars? It's a disaster, for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

It's been a while since I've been on Wikipedia... but I can't remember the last time I saw a template on a user page that was nice.

Randomran07:21, 9 July 2010

Ban message templates oriented to new editors at least.

I'm not supportive to the {{welcome}} used here (wiki strategy) to welcome new contributors.

KrebMarkt12:19, 9 July 2010
 
 

This reply is about a month late, but I did still want to answer. In response to "I believe that you can make people polite at gunpoint, which is what we have now, but not sure you can make them respectful or pleasant," I'd like to say it really depends on socialization. Most people who would tell you to fuck off on an online forum won't do that in person, because it is unacceptable in a RL social context. Those people also won't do it on Wikipedia, because it is unacceptable in that social context as well. Lawyers arguing in court don't make intellectual jabs at the judge, because they know the consequences. Similarly, if we raise the bar (really raise it, with enforcement; not just say it is raised) and start requiring respectfulness, you'll get it. Just like judges get it in court.

Getting buy in from admins is the harder part, I think, but not impossible.

Noraft04:17, 11 August 2010
 

This reply is about a month late, but I did still want to answer. In response to "I believe that you can make people polite at gunpoint, which is what we have now, but not sure you can make them respectful or pleasant," I'd like to say it really depends on socialization. Most people who would tell you to fuck off on an online forum won't do that in person, because it is unacceptable in a RL social context. Those people also won't do it on Wikipedia, because it is unacceptable in that social context as well. Lawyers arguing in court don't make intellectual jabs at the judge, because they know the consequences. Similarly, if we raise the bar (really raise it, with enforcement; not just say it is raised) and start requiring respectfulness, you'll get it. Just like judges get it in court.

Getting buy in from admins is the harder part, I think, but not impossible.

Noraft04:17, 11 August 2010