IRC office hours/2010-03-16

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[2010-03-16 20::00:18] eekim: hi everyone
[2010-03-16 20::02:14] Natalie: Time zones are hard?
[2010-03-16 20::02:33] eekim: argh
[2010-03-16 20::02:59] werdna: arrives at the right moment
[2010-03-16 20::03:16] eekim: sorry everyone
[2010-03-16 20::03:39] werdna: I might be around
[2010-03-16 20::04:02] Natalie: I should file bugs against LQT.
[2010-03-16 20::04:09] werdna: yes plz
[2010-03-16 20::09:24] >> scream joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::09:44] scream: I am here.
[2010-03-16 20::15:12] Natalie: Great!
[2010-03-16 20::17:20] >> mikelifeguard joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::17:33] scream: Natalie, I knew you would be most excited. Thank you.
[2010-03-16 20::18:15] werdna: feels safe with mikelifeguard around
[2010-03-16 20::18:31] mikelifeguard: ^_^
[2010-03-16 20::36:39] >> LauraHale left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::43:07] >> yannf joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::44:19] >> Az1568_ is now known as AlexZ_.
[2010-03-16 20::45:04] >> yannf left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::45:28] >> yannf joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::46:30] >> robla left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::46:41] >> robla joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::47:31] >> robla left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::47:41] >> robla joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::49:19] >> yann_ joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::50:11] >> yannf left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::55:52] >> yann__ joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 20::56:07] >> yann__ is now known as yannf.
[2010-03-16 20::58:25] >> yann_ left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::00:21] eekim: okay, let's try this again
[2010-03-16 21::02:03] >> bastique joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::02:10] eekim: hey bastique
[2010-03-16 21::02:13] >> Nihiltres joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::02:15] >> peteforsyth left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::02:25] >> Keegan joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::02:28] bastique: oh hai
[2010-03-16 21::02:32] Keegan: It's Tuesday
[2010-03-16 21::02:37] eekim: hey keegan
[2010-03-16 21::02:40] Keegan: Hi
[2010-03-16 21::03:06] eekim: how goes the BLP task force?
[2010-03-16 21::03:15] Keegan: Can we talk about how awesome Wikipedia is
[2010-03-16 21::03:31] eekim: we can always talk about how awesome Wikipedia is!
[2010-03-16 21::03:47] Keegan: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Task_force/Living_People/Drafting_pages/Recommendations_to_the_Board_of_Trustees/Draft_2
[2010-03-16 21::04:07] bastique: \o/
[2010-03-16 21::04:15] Keegan: I emailed NYB this evening
[2010-03-16 21::04:26] >> NuclearWarfare joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::04:30] bastique: we need a user named Nyb
[2010-03-16 21::04:34] eekim: Keegan, I'd be curious to your answer to: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Task_force/Strategy#What_impact_do_you_think_you_can_have_on_the_world.3F_3688
[2010-03-16 21::05:25] Keegan: Oh sure
[2010-03-16 21::05:41] >> Chzz_ joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::06:15] >> mikelifeguard left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::06:27] Keegan: goes to write
[2010-03-16 21::06:31] eekim: is the BLP draft meant to be a draft _for the board_, or recommendations _to the board_?
[2010-03-16 21::06:47] bastique: we're hoping the board takes it and makes it their own.
[2010-03-16 21::07:34] eekim: is there precedence for these types of board recommendations to the projects?
[2010-03-16 21::07:54] Keegan: Hm
[2010-03-16 21::07:56] bastique: This is the first of its kind.
[2010-03-16 21::07:57] Keegan: I don't think so
[2010-03-16 21::08:46] >> Mike||gone joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::08:48] eekim: is the hope that, if the board says this, projects will listen?
[2010-03-16 21::09:24] Keegan: That and a point of reference when the smaller wikis start formulating policies
[2010-03-16 21::09:43] eekim: Makes a lot of sense as a point of reference
[2010-03-16 21::10:02] bastique: The hope that the BLP task force makes strong recommendations with backing of the wiki communities, the board says "yes" and the wikis have the strength of the board to draw on.
[2010-03-16 21::10:31] eekim: has that been a barrier in the past?
[2010-03-16 21::11:14] bastique: The silence of the board has been an impediement
[2010-03-16 21::11:22] >> naveenpf joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::11:51] NuclearWarfare: ironically, right now, the biggest thing in the way is the task force itself...not many people are doing the work
[2010-03-16 21::12:02] bastique: Not necessarily silence, what I really mean is ambiguity.
[2010-03-16 21::12:03] NuclearWarfare: quiets down
[2010-03-16 21::12:20] eekim: i think the recommendations are strong
[2010-03-16 21::12:24] naveenpf: is the project till open ?
[2010-03-16 21::12:26] >> YellowMonkey joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::12:33] eekim: which project, naveenpf?
[2010-03-16 21::12:50] naveenpf: strategy-wiki
[2010-03-16 21::12:54] bastique: The last resolution on BLP was more about "we think biographies have a direct impact on people and we think the wikis should do something about that"
[2010-03-16 21::12:56] eekim: yup, it's definitely still open
[2010-03-16 21::13:32] bastique: eekim: yup
[2010-03-16 21::13:41] naveenpf: who will be taking the recommendations from http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Task_force/India
[2010-03-16 21::14:18] eekim: naveenpf, the strategy task force is working to refine and prioritize all task force recommendations
[2010-03-16 21::14:23] Nihiltres: why George?
[2010-03-16 21::14:45] eekim: regarding BLP recommendations, I think it's a great idea to have the board make stronger statements on these issues
[2010-03-16 21::15:28] Keegan: eekim: Sorta
[2010-03-16 21::15:45] Natalie: Strategyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
[2010-03-16 21::15:49] eekim: hi Nihiltres
[2010-03-16 21::15:50] bastique: Nihiltres, "I will hug it and keep it for my own and call it George"
[2010-03-16 21::15:54] Keegan: muzzles Natalie
[2010-03-16 21::16:00] Natalie: I'm here.
[2010-03-16 21::16:12] Keegan: is writing up his Wikipedia experience
[2010-03-16 21::16:15] Natalie: What was the Board discussion above?
[2010-03-16 21::16:22] eekim: Keegan, I'm going to talk to SJ and Stu tomorrow. Anything I should mention to them about this work?
[2010-03-16 21::16:36] Natalie: bastique> we're hoping the board takes it and makes it their own.
[2010-03-16 21::16:44] eekim: talking about whether the board has been paying attention to the BLP task force work
[2010-03-16 21::16:52] bastique: Natalie, explain it to Nihiltres
[2010-03-16 21::17:14] Natalie: Nihiltres: There's basically a lot of being work done that everyone is "sort of" sure will ultimately be a Good Thing.
[2010-03-16 21::17:55] Nihiltres: yes
[2010-03-16 21::18:32] Natalie: It's just a culture reference. You either get it or not, no big deal.
[2010-03-16 21::18:58] Nihiltres: I see
[2010-03-16 21::18:59] Keegan: eekim: ask them if they like it
[2010-03-16 21::19:01] Natalie: I thought Of Mice and Men might've had a similar line.
[2010-03-16 21::19:14] bastique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JlVqfC8-UI
[2010-03-16 21::19:14] eekim: Keegan, will do
[2010-03-16 21::19:15] Natalie: Who killed things?
[2010-03-16 21::19:25] eekim: would be good to draft some context, so the board understands what is being asked of them
[2010-03-16 21::19:40] Keegan: Good point
[2010-03-16 21::19:46] Natalie: I liked my other explanation better.
[2010-03-16 21::19:49] bastique: Yes, it draws from "Of Mice and Men"
[2010-03-16 21::19:52] Nihiltres: Natalie: yes, particularly small, fragile mice
[2010-03-16 21::19:55] Natalie: The last I saw of the draft BLP work it gave me a headache.
[2010-03-16 21::20:10] Keegan: Natalie: NW cleaned up my bad prose
[2010-03-16 21::20:14] NuclearWarfare: I did?
[2010-03-16 21::20:22] Natalie: NW: <3
[2010-03-16 21::20:30] NuclearWarfare: It needs a real copyeditor
[2010-03-16 21::20:37] bastique: what was it, Kentuckyish English?
[2010-03-16 21::20:48] Natalie: Tennessee English :v
[2010-03-16 21::20:53] Keegan: I emailed Newyorkbrad to ask him to start working
[2010-03-16 21::20:55] Natalie: hugs Keegan.
[2010-03-16 21::21:00] Keegan: hugs Natalie
[2010-03-16 21::21:00] NuclearWarfare: More like a cross between Oxford English, Texas Drawl, and California hipster
[2010-03-16 21::21:08] Keegan: mutters "Kentucky..."
[2010-03-16 21::21:14] Natalie: High.
[2010-03-16 21::21:17] Keegan: NW is right
[2010-03-16 21::22:24] >> Mike||gone is now known as mikelifeguard.
[2010-03-16 21::22:42] >> Natalie left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::22:58] bastique: that's FloNight, sorry.
[2010-03-16 21::23:23] Keegan: Meh, now I lost my train of thought
[2010-03-16 21::23:37] bastique: Natalie has that effect.
[2010-03-16 21::24:14] NuclearWarfare: speaking of FloNight...where is she
[2010-03-16 21::24:45] Keegan: Flo's been on the talk page
[2010-03-16 21::25:37] >> naveenpf left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::27:19] Keegan: blames Natalie
[2010-03-16 21::27:42] >> peteforsyth joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::27:42] >> peteforsyth left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::27:42] >> peteforsyth joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::27:43] eekim: keep going, Keegan! i want to read it.
[2010-03-16 21::27:52] >> Natalie joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::28:59] eekim: would love it if others answered the question keegan's working on right now: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Task_force/Strategy#What_impact_do_you_think_you_can_have_on_the_world.3F_3688
[2010-03-16 21::29:20] peteforsyth: hey eekim :)
[2010-03-16 21::29:22] >> jrtayloriv joined the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::29:45] Natalie: I'm back.
[2010-03-16 21::29:47] peteforsyth: Is this an office hours?
[2010-03-16 21::29:49] eekim: welcome, jrtayloriv
[2010-03-16 21::29:49] Natalie: Someone unplugged the Internet.
[2010-03-16 21::30:00] peteforsyth: nice!
[2010-03-16 21::30:09] Natalie: If you say so.
[2010-03-16 21::30:33] Keegan: I'd like to see Natalie's answer :P
[2010-03-16 21::30:41] jrtayloriv: eekim, Thanks
[2010-03-16 21::30:51] Natalie: I don't think you want my commentary on that.
[2010-03-16 21::31:05] eekim: actually, i would, Natalie
[2010-03-16 21::31:19] peteforsyth: hi sj :D
[2010-03-16 21::31:34] Natalie: It looks like a lot of wishy-washy bullshit that's a poor substitute for actual work.
[2010-03-16 21::32:06] eekim: as far as i can tell, everyone who's posted so far has done real work
[2010-03-16 21::32:09] Natalie: I mean, I guess that's fine if you're doing it on the weekend or something, but February 4 is a workday...
[2010-03-16 21::32:11] >> yannf left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::32:21] eekim: sharing why they're doing it is a good, helpful thing
[2010-03-16 21::32:30] Natalie: A feel-good thing, maybe.
[2010-03-16 21::32:38] eekim: feeling good ain't a bad thing
[2010-03-16 21::32:42] Natalie: There are lots of things that make you feel good.
[2010-03-16 21::33:41] eekim: not quite sure i'm understanding. are you commenting on the fact that some folks contributed posts during "work" hours?
[2010-03-16 21::34:35] Natalie: I'm saying that there are productive uses of time and unproductive uses of time.
[2010-03-16 21::35:19] eekim: let's agree to disagree
[2010-03-16 21::35:35] Nihiltres: it can be productive in a few contexts
[2010-03-16 21::35:59] Natalie: If you were signing up to be Wikimedia's shrink, I guess.
[2010-03-16 21::36:05] peteforsyth: eekim: or anyone: has there been discussion of staff's setting priorities relating to the outcomes of the strategy process?
[2010-03-16 21::36:20] eekim: how do you mean, peteforsyth?
[2010-03-16 21::36:45] Nihiltres: Natalie: psychological evaluation of the motivation of Wikipedians might, in fact, be useful for informing strategy.
[2010-03-16 21::37:16] Natalie: This wasn't "psychological evaluation."
[2010-03-16 21::37:49] peteforsyth: well, I haven't been around for office hours for a while, so I'm not sure what's been discussed. Personally, I'm thinking a lot about the desire to draw more collaborative-minded people into our communities, and provide tools/structures that empower collaborative behavior
[2010-03-16 21::38:13] Natalie: So many words and yet so little said. :-(
[2010-03-16 21::38:59] >> NuclearWarfare left the chat room.
[2010-03-16 21::39:13] eekim: peteforsyth, there aren't any Community Health Task Force participants here, but there are plenty of good folks with whom to have that discussion
[2010-03-16 21::39:35] peteforsyth: right. that''s what I figured -- so I'm just throwing that out there. :)
[2010-03-16 21::39:40] Nihiltres: I'm not on any TF's but I think there's plenty of ideas for that
[2010-03-16 21::40:13] eekim: peteforsyth, i think it would be helpful if you seeded the discussion
[2010-03-16 21::40:23] peteforsyth: Nihiltres: one thing I've been thinking about is what might be done to facilitate Wiki*edians telling their stories--
[2010-03-16 21::42:08] Nihiltres: I think there are two contexts in particular that are important for that
[2010-03-16 21::42:10] peteforsyth: also, facilitating meta discussion about what works well in reaching out to museums, and other cultural/educational partners
[2010-03-16 21::43:58] Nihiltres: a) emotional response: what in, say, article evolution was exciting, frustrating, enjoyable, hilarious, and
[2010-03-16 21::44:48] peteforsyth: yes -- very helpful observation
[2010-03-16 21::45:22] Keegan: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Task_force/Strategy#What_impact_do_you_think_you_can_have_on_the_world.3F_3688
[2010-03-16 21::45:37] peteforsyth: Some of the stuff we've done on wikiprojectoregon.wordpress.com is more along those lines
[2010-03-16 21::46:09] Keegan: Also, my hands still smell like onions
[2010-03-16 21::46:22] peteforsyth: Keegan: Mine are about to :)
[2010-03-16 21::46:27] Nihiltres: I think (a) is important in that it informs our strategy. If something is conspicuously frustrating, we need to change it
[2010-03-16 21::48:10] peteforsyth: yes.
[2010-03-16 21::48:30] eekim: appreciate your response, keegan
[2010-03-16 21::48:45] Keegan: I'm not sure what I said, but no problem
[2010-03-16 21::48:50] peteforsyth: And also, addressing the whole "why on earth would you spend your time writing an encyclopedia" question -- sharing the joy of successful and generative collaboration
[2010-03-16 21::49:05] Nihiltres: Yes…
[2010-03-16 21::49:08] YellowMonkey: ...to push their pov
[2010-03-16 21::49:16] Nihiltres: YellowMonkey: :/
[2010-03-16 21::49:29] YellowMonkey: well it's true, even though nobody cares
[2010-03-16 21::49:29] eekim: i have fond memories of reading encyclopedias when i was a kid too. there aren't going to be that many wikipedians who can say that in a few years.
[2010-03-16 21::49:54] YellowMonkey: ...or to play politics and get disciples
[2010-03-16 21::50:24] Keegan: Hey, YellowMonkey, I'm one of your desciples
[2010-03-16 21::50:35] YellowMonkey: no you arent
[2010-03-16 21::50:36] Keegan: *dis
[2010-03-16 21::50:51] YellowMonkey: I aint stupid like Rama's Arrow
[2010-03-16 21::51:31] peteforsyth: eekim: I remember being disappointed there wasn't more sex 'n' drugs 'n; rock 'n roll :)
[2010-03-16 21::51:34] YellowMonkey: as far as show and tell goes, the Q should not be to FA writers, but why the others won't write
[2010-03-16 21::51:37] peteforsyth: to each theirown i guess
[2010-03-16 21::51:40] Keegan: Still, I'm on your list :P
[2010-03-16 21::51:51] YellowMonkey: you're in elite company of double dealers
[2010-03-16 21::52:10] Keegan: YellowMonkey: Because I'm not a writer?
[2010-03-16 21::52:29] Nihiltres: YellowMonkey has a point on the why people won't write
[2010-03-16 21::52:37] Keegan: I also can't master the English language
[2010-03-16 21::52:41] YellowMonkey: if you got nommed by me, it proves you must be a crap admin
[2010-03-16 21::53:22] Keegan: goes to sulk and cry
[2010-03-16 21::54:08] eekim: folks, we've got about five more minutes before office hours are over
[2010-03-16 21::54:21] YellowMonkey: what's the poiont of this channe;
[2010-03-16 21::54:21] Keegan: sniffles
[2010-03-16 21::55:08] mikelifeguard: eekim: What's the status of the bookshelf project?
[2010-03-16 21::55:14] eekim: generally to discuss Wikimedia strategy. there are also office hours every Tuesday/Wednesday: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_Office_Hours
[2010-03-16 21::55:43] mikelifeguard: poses it to peteforsyth
[2010-03-16 21::56:03] peteforsyth: mikelifeguard: gimme just a sec on that, I have another thought on the previous subject
[2010-03-16 21::56:20] mikelifeguard: np
[2010-03-16 21::56:37] peteforsyth: to YellowMonkey -- I agree that it's important to have people telling all kinds of stories--
[2010-03-16 21::57:06] YellowMonkey: they do that already on their talk pages
[2010-03-16 21::57:09] peteforsyth: However I think the audiences are kinda different
[2010-03-16 21::57:24] YellowMonkey: I know one admin who went and opposed people's RFAs because they did GAs
[2010-03-16 21::57:38] peteforsyth: I am currently thinking a lot about success stories, because that is what non-Wiki*edians expressing interest often want to hear.
[2010-03-16 21::57:54] YellowMonkey: one of his GAs got binned for being unsourced. and he was well known for lecturing tendentious editors about getting a source :)
[2010-03-16 21::58:06] peteforsyth: I thik the audience for stories of frustration etc. is US--
[2010-03-16 21::58:22] YellowMonkey: so this is to spam the outsider? heh
[2010-03-16 21::58:32] peteforsyth: that is, those who want to keep our community as healthy and productive as possible, and eliminate obstacles.
[2010-03-16 21::58:41] YellowMonkey: personally I think that not mayn asians editing en.wiki is a good thing
[2010-03-16 21::59:05] peteforsyth: re "spam" -- this is about developing resources and capacity to facilitate communication -- distribution is a whole separate question
[2010-03-16 21::59:13] YellowMonkey: then there would be 200 people trashing the Dalai Lama page every day
[2010-03-16 21::59:25] peteforsyth: mikelifeguard:
[2010-03-16 22::00:55] mikelifeguard: the project manager left?
[2010-03-16 22::01:12] eekim: yes, a few months ago now
[2010-03-16 22::01:15] mikelifeguard: actually, my next question was going to be "weren't staff hired specifically for that project?"
[2010-03-16 22::01:17] peteforsyth: the first one did, yes -- but we have hired a replacement, Rod Dunican, and he's great :)
[2010-03-16 22::01:21] Nihiltres: peteforsyth: what are the expected deliverables so far?
[2010-03-16 22::01:40] mikelifeguard: peteforsyth: Was that announced? (either the leaving or the new hire)
[2010-03-16 22::02:05] peteforsyth: yes and yes
[2010-03-16 22::02:44] mikelifeguard: hmph, I've been aleep at the wheel then
[2010-03-16 22::02:45] eekim: they were, pete
[2010-03-16 22::02:51] mikelifeguard: I'll have to check the archives
[2010-03-16 22::03:03] eekim: okay, folks, another office hours has passed
[2010-03-16 22::03:40] mikelifeguard: see ya
[2010-03-16 22::03:52] Nihiltres: night eekim :)
[2010-03-16 22::03:55] peteforsyth: thanks eekim