IRC office hours/2009-09-15

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[3:01pm] eekim: doing a big launch tomorrow
[3:01pm] eekim: CentralNotice linking to an appeal letter from Jimbo and Michael Snow
[3:02pm] eekim: call for participation in the strategic planning process
[3:02pm] ChrisiPK: tomorrow already?
[3:02pm] eekim: yup
[3:02pm] Dedalus_: hi
[3:03pm] eekim: hi Dedalus_
[3:04pm] • Philippe|Wiki has dug his way out of IMs and channel spam and rejoined the channel. Hi to everyone.
[3:04pm] eekim: does everyone get how the task force process will work?
[3:04pm] Dedalus_: no
[3:04pm] eekim:
[3:04pm] eekim: okay, how about you tell us what you get, and others can fill in the blank
[3:05pm] Amgine: 1) what is your authority?
[3:06pm] Dedalus_: so there is http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Task_Force_Selection_Committee
[3:06pm] eekim: hi Amgine. authority for what?
[3:07pm] skenmy: eekim = Rand?
[3:07pm] Amgine: Existence, ability, responsibility. Who gave the green light to this. One whose authority are you acting?
[3:07pm] Amgine: I couldn't find that on the wiki.
[3:07pm] • henna waves
[3:07pm] eekim: i'm doing this for the foundation
[3:07pm] eekim: thought that was on my user page; if not, i'll add it
[3:08pm] skenmy: wait no
[3:08pm] skenmy: eekim = Eugene
[3:08pm] Amgine: Well, I was actually asking about the strategy project, but...
[3:08pm] PeterSymonds joined the chat room.
[3:08pm] skenmy: sorry
[3:08pm] ChrisiPK: but there's no real "authority" here, this is an open process and everyone is invited to participate and help in building consensus
[3:08pm] aude joined the chat room.
[3:08pm] Philippe|Wiki: Amgine, the project was initiated by the Board of Trustees, if that is what you are asking.
[3:08pm] eekim: no worries, skenmy
[3:08pm] ChrisiPK: i'm not sure what you think we need to be authorized for
[3:09pm] Amgine: Yep, that was exactly what I was asking. Can you point me to the resolution?
[3:09pm] effeietsanders: Amgine: are you doubting it, or just interested?
[3:09pm] Amgine: Yes! Of course!
[3:09pm] eekim: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Long_term_strategic_plan
[3:09pm] • effeietsanders waves at eekim
[3:09pm] schiste: Heya
[3:10pm] eekim: hi effeietsanders!
[3:10pm] Dedalus_: ... ok Amgine is helpful in moving us two months back - while everybody else has an eye on tomorrow's http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Call_for_participation/Task_force_application
[3:10pm] kibble: Dedalus_, there's nothing wrong with clearing up the basics
[3:10pm] Amgine: Sorry... it was just a niggling problem for me.
[3:10pm] eekim: right. good reminder that we should document this on the wiki
[3:11pm] eekim: no worries, Amgine. glad to clear things up
[3:11pm] Philippe|Wiki: Yeah, I actually think it's important to reiterate that... I'm going to add it to the wiki today
[3:11pm] ChrisiPK: are the task forces supposed to be in english only?
[3:11pm] brassratgirl_ joined the chat room.
[3:11pm] eekim: yes and no
[3:11pm] eekim: the ones that are sanctioned by the selection committee will work in english
[3:12pm] eekim: however, if others decide to form their own task force and operate in a different language, that's great
[3:12pm] eekim: just be sure to work on the wiki, so that we can see (and translate) the discussion
[3:12pm] eekim: it's a shortcut. it's not my favorite solution.
[3:12pm] eekim: if we had another three months, we probably would have done it differently
[3:13pm] • Philippe|Wiki nods
[3:13pm] effeietsanders: eekim: is there any intention of organizing actively strategy meetings?
[3:13pm] effeietsanders: as in, irl ones?
[3:13pm] ChrisiPK: well if we have the manpower, we could also create task forces in different languages...
[3:13pm] Philippe|Wiki: effeietsanders: I'm in the process of building the materials for self-organizing groups right now
[3:13pm] delphine: effeietsanders: how *we* do it?
[3:13pm] eekim: effeietsanders: yes
[3:13pm] delphine: *how about
[3:13pm] delphine: not how
[3:13pm] delphine:
[3:14pm] delphine: effeietsanders: how about *we* do it?
[3:14pm] eekim: ChrisiPK, absolutely
[3:14pm] effeietsanders: I saw some overview of already planned stuff, but I was wondering if there was anything already on the rails
[3:14pm] effeietsanders: delphine: maybe..
[3:14pm] eekim: in general, we want to support what others are doing rather than organize meetups ourselves
[3:14pm] Dedalus_: eekim can you elaborate on the WMF decision about http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Task_Force_Selection_Committee
[3:14pm] Philippe|Wiki: Anyone who wants to is encouraged to organize a discussion and we'll help support that.
[3:14pm] effeietsanders: delphine: but then I need to be sure it is actually fitting in the planning
[3:14pm] effeietsanders: and not too late etc
[3:14pm] yannf joined the chat room.
[3:14pm] eekim: sure, Dedalus_. what is it would you like elaboration on?
[3:15pm] Dedalus_: eaxactly who decided when, and try to get Amgine in the loop as well
[3:15pm] eekim: effeietsanders: i'd like to see if we can piggyback something off the November meeting in Paris. have been in discussion w/ christophe about that
[3:15pm] eekim: also would like to do something in april with the chapters meeting
[3:15pm] effeietsanders: in april?
[3:15pm] eekim: that's when it is, no?
[3:15pm] effeietsanders: isn't the whole process supposed to be quite far already by then?
[3:16pm] effeietsanders: isn't that a bit late?
[3:16pm] eekim: yes, which is why i'm hoping to piggyback something in november
[3:16pm] schiste: no in november
[3:16pm] eekim: the april one would be more about vetting the work, rather than starting something
[3:16pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus, who decided "what" when?
[3:16pm] • effeietsanders wonders what piggyback means and goes to see his friend google
[3:16pm] • schiste sent a mail sunday about to eekim about it
[3:16pm] eekim: sorry about the lingo
[3:16pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: are you wondering who created the committee?
[3:17pm] delphine: effeietsanders: to take advantage of the opportunity
[3:17pm] delphine: effeietsanders: tie a meeting to another
[3:17pm] effeietsanders: ah
[3:17pm] eekim: hi schiste!
[3:17pm] Dedalus_: Philippe|Wiki: yup
[3:17pm] eekim: sorry i haven't gotten back to you yet. we can talk here, or i'll email you after this.
[3:17pm] schiste: hie eekim
[3:17pm] • effeietsanders was more thinking along the lines of several meetups throughout the world in local languages
[3:18pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus, the Board of Trustees authorized that committee and worked with staff to identify people to serve on it.
[3:18pm] eekim: that's exactly what i'd like to see. and so we have to encourage others to organize those.
[3:18pm] eekim: if we're expected to organize all of those, it's not going to work.
[3:18pm] eekim: philippe has been drafting a "Meetup Kit" that documents the basics of running a strategy meetup
[3:18pm] Philippe|Wiki: (meetings either online or IRL)
[3:18pm] eekim: we'll get that translated
[3:19pm] eekim: and then all of us should spread the word!
[3:19pm] ChrisiPK: is there a process to select which proposals to discuss further and implement? right now there are loads of proposals, but no means of categorizing them by feasibility or probability of implementation
[3:19pm] eekim: there is no single process, because there can't be
[3:19pm] eekim: different proposals fall under different jurisdictions
[3:19pm] Philippe|Wiki: ChrisiPK: Delphine has suggested a categorization method at http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Village_pump#Review_the_.22nature.22_of_proposals
[3:19pm] effeietsanders: I assume that the Kit includes documents about what the process is about, and a constantly updates "State of the Strategy"?
[3:19pm] delphine: ChrisiPK: you might want to participate in the discussion on the village pump
[3:20pm] ChrisiPK: yea i saw that on the VP, but that is still not a categorization by probability of implementation
[3:20pm] Philippe|Wiki: effeietsanders: you assume correctly
[3:20pm] effeietsanders: good
[3:20pm] eekim: ChrisiPK: the problem is, it's up to different projects as to what the probability of implementation is
[3:20pm] delphine: ChrisiPK: maybe you could jsut write that
[3:20pm] eekim: for example, we've already implemented a number of proposals on the strategy wiki
[3:20pm] ChrisiPK: eekim, well yes, but it was my understanding that the strategy project is to give recommendations to the WMF and the single projects at the end of the planning
[3:20pm] eekim: the meetup kit was strongly influenced by effeietsanders' proposal, for example
[3:21pm] ChrisiPK: delphine, will do
[3:21pm] effeietsanders: (blush)
[3:21pm] • Dedalus_ thinks that proposals get split up across 16 task forces, each task force will evaluate a subset of the proposals
[3:21pm] eekim: ChrisiPK, that's correct
[3:21pm] delphine: ChrisiPK: thank you
[3:21pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: Some may... not all will, probably
[3:21pm] eekim: the purpose of the task forces is to make recommendations. that will most likely include references to proposals.
[3:21pm] ChrisiPK: eekim, so there needs to be a process to select which procedures we recommend in the end, no?
[3:21pm] ChrisiPK: ah okay
[3:21pm] effeietsanders: by the way, I have to say that it gets harder and harder to find the information you need on strategy wiki
[3:21pm] Dedalus_: the meetup kit - is that online somewhere?
[3:21pm] eekim: right.
[3:21pm] effeietsanders: because there is such a huge lot of it
[3:22pm] ChrisiPK: effeietsanders, +1
[3:22pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: it's still in development... once the first draft is ready, it'll be up
[3:22pm] eekim: i agree
[3:22pm] Philippe|Wiki: Which I hope is today
[3:22pm] eekim: how can we make it easier to navigate?
[3:22pm] Dedalus_: Philippe|Wiki: what do you propose to do with proposals that won't be considered by any task force?
[3:22pm] eekim: Dedalus_: encourage others to take a look
[3:22pm] ChrisiPK: which is exactly why we imho need a way of selecting proposals we would seriously want to discuss...there are quite a few proposals which we basically all know will never be implemented, so bothering users with them is not helpful
[3:22pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: That seriously depends on the proposal. Some of them will be evaluated by individuals, some by chapters...
[3:22pm] effeietsanders: eekim: keeping it in mind already helps
[3:23pm] effeietsanders: eekim: for example, the link in the sitenotice now doesn't really help
[3:23pm] Philippe|Wiki: ChrisiPK: I encourage you to participate in the VP discussion - these are exactly the types of questions being hashed out there
[3:23pm] effeietsanders: it just points to an overcrowded village pump
[3:23pm] Philippe|Wiki: Yeah, not my best sitenotice ever.
[3:23pm] effeietsanders: (which are, by definition, overcrowded, which is a good thing in general - but not for new people)
[3:23pm] ChrisiPK: Philippe|Wiki, as i said, the village pump system only categorizes proposals by the size of the step they require us to make, not by "is this even sane?"
[3:23pm] eekim: liquidthreads may help with that
[3:24pm] eekim: ChrisiPK, can you really objectively judge the sanity of a proposal?
[3:24pm] effeietsanders: eekim: only I can
[3:24pm] effeietsanders: nobody else
[3:24pm] eekim: i guess we have a process then
[3:24pm] effeietsanders:
[3:24pm] Philippe|Wiki: Effe, I think I'm okay with that
[3:24pm] Dedalus_: how can I gather the reader feedback data per proposal?
[3:25pm] eekim: i say we anoint effeietsanders as judge
[3:25pm] ChrisiPK: eekim, i think the community as a whole should be able to do that
[3:25pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: On each proposal, there's a toolbar link in the left sidebar
[3:25pm] eekim: how would you propose they do that, ChrisiPK?
[3:25pm] effeietsanders: Philippe|Wiki: btw, can we make that more visible?
[3:25pm] effeietsanders: the rating?
[3:25pm] effeietsanders: more prominent?
[3:25pm] Philippe|Wiki: The rating tool? or the sidebar link?
[3:25pm] eekim: good question
[3:25pm] ChrisiPK: by discussion. there are proposals which have a lot of posts like "this is stupid" on their talk page
[3:26pm] effeietsanders: for example, a button on the top right corner of the article "rate this proposal"
[3:26pm] ChrisiPK: we could change the CSS of the rating tool to give it a more prominent color or size
[3:26pm] eekim: so in general, i'd rather highlight proposals that are good rather than categorize proposals that folks think are "stupid"
[3:26pm] Philippe|Wiki: effeietsanders: good thought, let me get with Aaron and find out if theres anyhting that already does that in the extension
[3:26pm] • gopher65 waves hand as one of the people who writes "This is stupid" on talk pages
[3:26pm] Dedalus_: Philippe|Wiki: thank, I like the information on *all* proposals in one table ... without having to visit manually 750 pages ...
[3:26pm] gopher65: - without actually rating the article
[3:26pm] eekim: LOL
[3:27pm] ChrisiPK: eekim, my point exactly. currently it is almost impossible to distinguish and people cannot find the proposals which do really have a chance of being implemented
[3:27pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: The tool doesn't do that natively: we're in the process of working out reporting with Aaron, who created it.
[3:27pm] effeietsanders: and some kind of sorting by average rate would be useful too
[3:27pm] eekim: ChrisiPK: i agree. and the parallel conversation we're having about rating i think is relevant.
[3:27pm] effeietsanders: but I assume that can only be done with toolserver tools
[3:27pm] Philippe|Wiki: effeietsanders: that's also one of the things I talked to Aaron about today - the readerfeedback extension is kind of being bastardized to meet our needs.
[3:27pm] eekim: so we have an opportunity to improve how ReaderFeedback works.
[3:27pm] ChrisiPK: Philippe|Wiki, effeietsanders, a button like that could by done by javascript
[3:27pm] eekim: we just have to ask.
[3:27pm] effeietsanders: ChrisiPK: that is what I thought about yes
[3:28pm] eekim: we should start a wiki page where we make suggestions on improving ReaderFeedback
[3:28pm] effeietsanders: like, on the place where you have a photo in biographies
[3:28pm] eekim: or, we should just add our comments to the appropriate extension page
[3:28pm] gopher65: Wikinews uses ReaderFeedback extensively, so any improvement that would make it more reader-friendly would be great
[3:28pm] effeietsanders: eekim: or we make it a proposal
[3:28pm] ChrisiPK: i'd rather have a quick and dirty solution for this than ask extension developers to make improvements...usually those take weeks or months, if not years, to be implemented
[3:28pm] eekim: lol
[3:28pm] gopher65: for more than just this wiki
[3:28pm] Philippe|Wiki: ChrisiPK: we've actually had very good response from Aaron
[3:28pm] effeietsanders: there should be some wiki for that kind of stuff...
[3:28pm] eekim: no reason we can't do both a quick and dirty solution and a "real" solution
[3:29pm] ChrisiPK: yes
[3:29pm] eekim: just need to make coherent suggestions to aaron
[3:29pm] ChrisiPK: i'm not against recommending improvements, just saying that we need to figure out a short term solution to meet our needs
[3:29pm] Philippe|Wiki: ChrisiPK: you comfortable with Javascript? Want to make a demo for it?
[3:29pm] eekim: gopher65, if it helps Wikinews too, all the better
[3:29pm] ChrisiPK: uh oh
[3:29pm] Dedalus_: if the reader feedback were in categories, they might have been easier to fetch ... that way i could do things like i showed on http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Dedalus/thamus
[3:29pm] effeietsanders:
[3:29pm] Philippe|Wiki: ChrisiPK: that'll teach you to give an idea.
[3:29pm] ChrisiPK: i can read and understand most of javascript, but writing it is not really my speciality
[3:29pm] aude_ joined the chat room.
[3:29pm] ChrisiPK: hehe
[3:30pm] ChrisiPK: let me see whether i can dig someone up
[3:30pm] Philippe|Wiki: Great.... if not, let me know and i'll go to my address book
[3:30pm] Dedalus_: hi aude
[3:30pm] ChrisiPK: what is the button supposed to do?
[3:30pm] eekim: hi aude!
[3:30pm] Dedalus_: maybe vvv can do something
[3:30pm] effeietsanders: hmmm, could someone adapt the namespace of Special:Random ?
[3:31pm] Philippe|Wiki: <shrug> was your idea.
[3:31pm] Philippe|Wiki: You and effeietsanders
[3:31pm] effeietsanders: ChrisiPK: it should bring the user to the bottom of the page
[3:31pm] kibble: effeietsanders, yes
[3:31pm] effeietsanders: where the rating is located
[3:31pm] ChrisiPK: effeietsanders,
[
[Special:Random/Proposal]]
[3:31pm] effeietsanders: ChrisiPK: wow
[3:31pm] ChrisiPK: does that have an anchor?
[3:31pm] effeietsanders: cool!
[3:31pm] kibble: ChrisiPK, stealing my thunder
[3:32pm] aude_: hey
[3:32pm] eekim: i still maintain that at least for the purposes of the strategy project, i'd rather just see a thumbs up icon like Facebook's
[3:32pm] ChrisiPK: i suggested adding this link to the sidebar
[3:32pm] Philippe|Wiki: ChrisiPK - I remember that... and I seem to have never done it.
[3:32pm] Philippe|Wiki: oops
[3:32pm] Philippe|Wiki: (you should always feel free to remind me of stuff....)
[3:32pm] ChrisiPK:
[3:33pm] aude_ left the chat room.
[3:33pm] ChrisiPK: afaik it was rejected
[3:33pm] kibble: eekim, but we need an "unlike" facebook needs one of those
[3:33pm] Philippe|Wiki: If I rejected it, I don't remember why, and i"m not opposed to it now... so unless someone else objects we should do it
[3:33pm] eekim: i unlike an "unlike" feature
[3:33pm] kibble:
[3:34pm] Dedalus_: OK do we all support, or are there any objections, to going to the next phase, starting tomorrow by sending an appeal letter with a call for participation?
[3:34pm] Dedalus_: ... nobody signed http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/First_convenors_resolution
[3:34pm] ChrisiPK: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Philippe/Archive1#Sidebar_changes
[3:34pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus, I left a message on your talk page about the resolution
[3:35pm] aude left the chat room. (Nick collision from services.)
[3:35pm] eekim: Dedalus, I loved it in spirit too
[3:35pm] eekim: i'd also love to see a more informal version
[3:35pm] Philippe|Wiki: Thanks ChrisiPK: it looks like i didn't forget to do it, but I don't think it's a bad idea
[3:35pm] Philippe|Wiki: so let's do it
[3:35pm] effeietsanders: Dedalus_: :S
[3:35pm] ChrisiPK: okay are you doing it?
[3:35pm] Philippe|Wiki: It's on my list
[3:35pm] aude joined the chat room.
[3:36pm] eekim: frankly, i think we ought to have some kind of celebration once this Call for Participation is over, and we're officially into another phase
[3:36pm] Philippe|Wiki: Unless someone else wants to
[3:36pm] eekim: virtual beers on Philippe
[3:36pm] Philippe|Wiki: sure, and we can take it out eekim's budget.
[3:36pm] eekim: they'll be tiny virtual beers
[3:37pm] ChrisiPK: okay but please make the message translatable and don't add it like the VP and FB links
[3:37pm] Philippe|Wiki: And Dedalus_, I want to clarify: we're not sending an appeal letter, although that's what we've called it....
[3:37pm] Philippe|Wiki: it's actually served via centralnotice
[3:37pm] Dedalus_: will the results of "Additional knowledge was gathered through interviews with WMF staff, Board and Advisory Board members, Wikimedia Community members, and external people with expertise and/or interest in Wikimedia's mission and operations." be shared somewhere?
[3:37pm] eekim: absolutely
[3:37pm] eekim: i'm pretty annoyed that it's not already on the wiki yet, to be honest with you
[3:38pm] Philippe|Wiki: +1
[3:38pm] eekim: going to a meeting later today to push that
[3:38pm] eekim: in fairness, not everyone working on this is that comfortable with wikis
[3:39pm] • Dedalus_ I hope I didn't upset Serita too much with my welcome message ...
[3:39pm] eekim: doubt it, dedalus
[3:39pm] eekim: i like how you've been approaching people overall
[3:40pm] eekim: ask the hard questions, and encourage people to share/learn/contribute
[3:40pm] Dedalus_: ... while trying not to scare them away ...
[3:40pm] eekim: exactly
[3:41pm] eekim: be nice, be constructive, be honest
[3:41pm] Dedalus_: you are adding two proposals!
[3:41pm] aude: eekim: at wikimania, we chatted about types of data analysis that can be done to support the planning process
[3:41pm] Philippe|Wiki: I would remind everyone that we're likely to see a lot of new users tomorrow... and this is a good time to think about how we welcome them and convert them into active participation, as well
[3:41pm] • Dedalus_ we have be nice already thanks to effeietsanders
[3:42pm] eekim: aude: Yup. Some ideas are at: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Process/Evaluation
[3:42pm] Philippe|Wiki: (and also remind everyone that we're likely to see some disruption tomorrow, so keep your fingers ready to undo)
[3:42pm] aude: is there a list of what's being done, and any results or other such info on the wiki
[3:42pm] eekim: aude: there isn't a list yet, and so i should make one
[3:43pm] eekim: there's some open source analysis code at: http://github.com/jrbl/CollabStats
[3:43pm] geniice: no one has ever really worked out how to keep retention above average for any one group
[3:43pm] eekim: it's very preliminary
[3:43pm] eekim: the harder part is figuring out what exactly we should measure
[3:43pm] aude: i was willing to help with some (my maps and analysis), though perhaps the bridgeman group is handling it
[3:43pm] eekim: nope, bridgespan group isn't touching this
[3:44pm] eekim: would love your help
[3:44pm] FloNight: aude:yes. I'm interested in data that can support the process and be used to measure outcomes.
[3:44pm] eekim: hi FloNight. fantastic!
[3:44pm] Philippe|Wiki: aude, I am certain that Serita had told me she was interested in chatting with you about that...
[3:44pm] Philippe|Wiki: I'll make a note to see where she is on that
[3:44pm] aude: http://firststrike.net/wikiapps/wikimap.php - this still needs lots of work, but it maps (geocoded ips) the recent anon edits to enwiki
[3:44pm] eekim: ah, my mistake aude
[3:44pm] eekim: i'm thinking about analytics for the process itself. you're talking about analytics supporting the process.
[3:44pm] aude: statistics could be built from that and more
[3:45pm] eekim: yes, serita is definitely interested in this, and we could use all the help we can get
[3:45pm] aude: the ultimate idea was to take a country (e.g. Egypt), look at all the wiki contributions from there and see how many are going to english vs. arabic
[3:45pm] Philippe|Wiki: OK, just sent Serita a note
[3:46pm] aude: so far, very preliminary, i found it 50% / 50%
[3:46pm] _sj_ joined the chat room.
[3:46pm] aude: looking at a single wiki (arwiki), i found most of the contributions came from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and some from Jordan (and some from Europe) while other countries were well underrepresented
[3:46pm] eekim: wow, that's super cool!
[3:47pm] eekim: how recent is recent in your map?
[3:47pm] FloNight: aude:interesting indeed!
[3:47pm] aude: much more can be done, though it would take some time and effort
[3:47pm] aude: my map is current - calling the mediawiki api
[3:47pm] aude: i need to tie some stuff together in the code to make it work for all languages
[3:49pm] _sj_: aude: underrepresented by what measure?
[3:49pm] eekim: hey _sj_
[3:49pm] _sj_: <and hello all>
[3:49pm] Philippe|Wiki: HI Sj
[3:50pm] aude: sj: here are my slides from wikimania 2008 - http://firststrike.net/talks/wikimania2008.pdf
[3:50pm] Dedalus_: selecting Dutch (Nederlands) on aude map, I notice the majority of edits come from outside the Netherlands, and the world over .... Dutch is really a world language ...
[3:50pm] • Philippe|Wiki stole the url to send serita
[3:51pm] aude: basically, a country like morocco, the vast majority went to enwiki even though people do speak arabic there
[3:51pm] aude: for syria, arabic wikipedia happened to be blocked (not sure it still is) so hardly any contributions came from there
[3:52pm] cary is now known as cary-afk.
[3:52pm] aude: and a less affluent country like yemen, they have hardly any contributors at least showing up as ip edits
[3:53pm] geniice: well to be expected
[3:53pm] geniice: in countries where only the more wealthy can get online the more wealthy are likely to speak english
[3:53pm] aude: dedalus_: the language selector doesn't work yet- i had an older version of this done with google maps that i used with previous analysis
[3:54pm] aude: some languages like urdu see a substantial portion of edits from outside pakistan (e.g. europe)
[3:55pm] aude: that could be true for african languages but i didn't look at that yet
[3:55pm] geniice: incerdently these is where en blocks people:
[3:55pm] geniice: http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/File:DiEb-GeoIP-Circles-Wikipedia.png
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[3:56pm] Philippe|Wiki: You know, it's amazing... I get no mail for an hour, then 15 at once. and all "THE MOST IMPORTANT EMAIL OF THE DAY"
[3:57pm] Philippe|Wiki:
[3:57pm] Tango42 left the chat room. (Nick collision from services.)
[3:57pm] delphine: can't be
[3:57pm] aude: i suspect the range blocks are mostly schools, due to juvenile edits
[3:57pm] delphine: I didn't send you one
[3:57pm] delphine:
[3:57pm] Tango42_ is now known as Tango42.
[3:57pm] Philippe|Wiki: delphine: that reminds me... must set "junk mail" filters. :: runs ::
[3:57pm] delphine:
[3:57pm] geniice: aude schools do not normaly have /12 ranges
[3:58pm] geniice: Philippe|Wiki italian chapter issues
[3:58pm] geniice: ?
[3:58pm] Philippe|Wiki: geniice: those wouldn't affect me
[3:58pm] Philippe|Wiki: at least not directly
[3:58pm] geniice: /16 ranges rather
[3:58pm] Dedalus_: geniice: your map shows Africans are nice people, hardly any blocks in Africa ...
[3:58pm] geniice: Dedalus_ harly any IPs in africa to block
[3:59pm] Dedalus_: add a smiley for geniice some strategic issue about reach ...
[3:59pm] effeietsanders: haha
[3:59pm] effeietsanders: all of the netherlands is red
[3:59pm] Dedalus_: blocked ip map is a map of reach ...
[4:00pm] geniice: Dedalus you also got to remeber that due proxy issues there are some countries that can be neutralised by blocking a few IPs
[4:00pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: that's an interesting point
[4:00pm] geniice: heh back when we get censored by the IWF we ended up blocking a fair chunk of the UK but only a small number of IPs
[4:01pm] Dedalus_: ... only 1 dot on a map, isn't it?
[4:02pm] ChrisiPK: Philippe|Wiki, http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:ChrisiPK/vector.js
[4:02pm] Dedalus_: ok, do we have MediaWiki developers in the loop of strategizing, and hearing their view on the future of the movement?
[4:02pm] ChrisiPK: needs a bit of fancy and it's ready to go
[4:02pm] eekim: Dedalus: not enough
[4:02pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: That's a huge hole in our operations right now. Eugene has been working with Ariel and Brion on that
[4:02pm] _sj_: aude : have you talked to anyone about getting anonymized IP data from all editors to improve the map?
[4:03pm] eekim: and hopefully aude
[4:03pm] eekim: and many others
[4:03pm] aude: talked some with brion at wikimania, and think erik also has a say in that.
[4:04pm] Dedalus_: this is what I got from a developer: < vvv>Ah, I will surely quit if Brion and co won't establish a stable working code review process
[4:05pm] eekim: are there devs here right now?
[4:05pm] _sj_: Philippe|Wiki, how about the long tail of mediawiki devs who don't dream of their code being included in the core?
[4:06pm] Philippe|Wiki: _sj_ absolutely - they need to be included as well... that's hopefully part of eekim's discussion
[4:06pm] _sj_: most of them have no reason to hang out with wikimedians, save for crossover with mediawiki-l (if they take part on that list; most just read it occasionally or browse the archives)
[4:07pm] geniice: but with good reason
[4:07pm] _sj_: so aside from general omniscience, I'm not sure that's the same discussion at al
[4:07pm] eekim: _sj_, do you have ideas on how to engage with them?
[4:07pm] geniice: last thing you want when toy are trying to code is a bunch of wikipedians screeming about their pet feature
[4:07pm] _sj_: wasn't there a non-wikimedian mediawiki collab at some point?
[4:08pm] eekim: geniice: i can definitely empathize with that
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[4:08pm] Dedalus_: eekim i think vvv (a developer) is already sleeping ...
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[4:08pm] eekim: thanks, dedalus
[4:08pm] geniice: _sj_ there are various forks
[4:08pm] atglenn: lies, I tell you, it's all lies
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[4:08pm] eekim: we'll catch him at the next office hours when it will hopefully be more convenient
[4:09pm] eekim: *laugh* hey, atglenn!
[4:09pm] eekim: whoops, left before we could razz him
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[4:09pm] Rowan: what else did you expect?
[4:10pm] eekim: Rowan: about what?
[4:10pm] Philippe|Wiki: Hey folks, I'm going to have to disappear... I have much work to do before our next meeting today....
[4:10pm] _sj_: hi rand
[4:10pm] Philippe|Wiki: Thanks for being here, feel free to find me at any time if I can help with anything