IRC office hours/2009-09-15

    From Strategic Planning

    [3:01pm] eekim: doing a big launch tomorrow
    [3:01pm] eekim: CentralNotice linking to an appeal letter from Jimbo and Michael Snow
    [3:02pm] eekim: call for participation in the strategic planning process
    [3:02pm] ChrisiPK: tomorrow already?
    [3:02pm] eekim: yup
    [3:02pm] Dedalus_: hi
    [3:03pm] eekim: hi Dedalus_
    [3:04pm] • Philippe|Wiki has dug his way out of IMs and channel spam and rejoined the channel. Hi to everyone.
    [3:04pm] eekim: does everyone get how the task force process will work?
    [3:04pm] Dedalus_: no
    [3:04pm] eekim:
    [3:04pm] eekim: okay, how about you tell us what you get, and others can fill in the blank
    [3:05pm] Amgine: 1) what is your authority?
    [3:06pm] Dedalus_: so there is
    [3:06pm] eekim: hi Amgine. authority for what?
    [3:07pm] skenmy: eekim = Rand?
    [3:07pm] Amgine: Existence, ability, responsibility. Who gave the green light to this. One whose authority are you acting?
    [3:07pm] Amgine: I couldn't find that on the wiki.
    [3:07pm] • henna waves
    [3:07pm] eekim: i'm doing this for the foundation
    [3:07pm] eekim: thought that was on my user page; if not, i'll add it
    [3:08pm] skenmy: wait no
    [3:08pm] skenmy: eekim = Eugene
    [3:08pm] Amgine: Well, I was actually asking about the strategy project, but...
    [3:08pm] PeterSymonds joined the chat room.
    [3:08pm] skenmy: sorry
    [3:08pm] ChrisiPK: but there's no real "authority" here, this is an open process and everyone is invited to participate and help in building consensus
    [3:08pm] aude joined the chat room.
    [3:08pm] Philippe|Wiki: Amgine, the project was initiated by the Board of Trustees, if that is what you are asking.
    [3:08pm] eekim: no worries, skenmy
    [3:08pm] ChrisiPK: i'm not sure what you think we need to be authorized for
    [3:09pm] Amgine: Yep, that was exactly what I was asking. Can you point me to the resolution?
    [3:09pm] effeietsanders: Amgine: are you doubting it, or just interested?
    [3:09pm] Amgine: Yes! Of course!
    [3:09pm] eekim:
    [3:09pm] • effeietsanders waves at eekim
    [3:09pm] schiste: Heya
    [3:10pm] eekim: hi effeietsanders!
    [3:10pm] Dedalus_: ... ok Amgine is helpful in moving us two months back - while everybody else has an eye on tomorrow's
    [3:10pm] kibble: Dedalus_, there's nothing wrong with clearing up the basics
    [3:10pm] Amgine: Sorry... it was just a niggling problem for me.
    [3:10pm] eekim: right. good reminder that we should document this on the wiki
    [3:11pm] eekim: no worries, Amgine. glad to clear things up
    [3:11pm] Philippe|Wiki: Yeah, I actually think it's important to reiterate that... I'm going to add it to the wiki today
    [3:11pm] ChrisiPK: are the task forces supposed to be in english only?
    [3:11pm] brassratgirl_ joined the chat room.
    [3:11pm] eekim: yes and no
    [3:11pm] eekim: the ones that are sanctioned by the selection committee will work in english
    [3:12pm] eekim: however, if others decide to form their own task force and operate in a different language, that's great
    [3:12pm] eekim: just be sure to work on the wiki, so that we can see (and translate) the discussion
    [3:12pm] eekim: it's a shortcut. it's not my favorite solution.
    [3:12pm] eekim: if we had another three months, we probably would have done it differently
    [3:13pm] • Philippe|Wiki nods
    [3:13pm] effeietsanders: eekim: is there any intention of organizing actively strategy meetings?
    [3:13pm] effeietsanders: as in, irl ones?
    [3:13pm] ChrisiPK: well if we have the manpower, we could also create task forces in different languages...
    [3:13pm] Philippe|Wiki: effeietsanders: I'm in the process of building the materials for self-organizing groups right now
    [3:13pm] delphine: effeietsanders: how *we* do it?
    [3:13pm] eekim: effeietsanders: yes
    [3:13pm] delphine: *how about
    [3:13pm] delphine: not how
    [3:13pm] delphine:
    [3:14pm] delphine: effeietsanders: how about *we* do it?
    [3:14pm] eekim: ChrisiPK, absolutely
    [3:14pm] effeietsanders: I saw some overview of already planned stuff, but I was wondering if there was anything already on the rails
    [3:14pm] effeietsanders: delphine: maybe..
    [3:14pm] eekim: in general, we want to support what others are doing rather than organize meetups ourselves
    [3:14pm] Dedalus_: eekim can you elaborate on the WMF decision about
    [3:14pm] Philippe|Wiki: Anyone who wants to is encouraged to organize a discussion and we'll help support that.
    [3:14pm] effeietsanders: delphine: but then I need to be sure it is actually fitting in the planning
    [3:14pm] effeietsanders: and not too late etc
    [3:14pm] yannf joined the chat room.
    [3:14pm] eekim: sure, Dedalus_. what is it would you like elaboration on?
    [3:15pm] Dedalus_: eaxactly who decided when, and try to get Amgine in the loop as well
    [3:15pm] eekim: effeietsanders: i'd like to see if we can piggyback something off the November meeting in Paris. have been in discussion w/ christophe about that
    [3:15pm] eekim: also would like to do something in april with the chapters meeting
    [3:15pm] effeietsanders: in april?
    [3:15pm] eekim: that's when it is, no?
    [3:15pm] effeietsanders: isn't the whole process supposed to be quite far already by then?
    [3:16pm] effeietsanders: isn't that a bit late?
    [3:16pm] eekim: yes, which is why i'm hoping to piggyback something in november
    [3:16pm] schiste: no in november
    [3:16pm] eekim: the april one would be more about vetting the work, rather than starting something
    [3:16pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus, who decided "what" when?
    [3:16pm] • effeietsanders wonders what piggyback means and goes to see his friend google
    [3:16pm] • schiste sent a mail sunday about to eekim about it
    [3:16pm] eekim: sorry about the lingo
    [3:16pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: are you wondering who created the committee?
    [3:17pm] delphine: effeietsanders: to take advantage of the opportunity
    [3:17pm] delphine: effeietsanders: tie a meeting to another
    [3:17pm] effeietsanders: ah
    [3:17pm] eekim: hi schiste!
    [3:17pm] Dedalus_: Philippe|Wiki: yup
    [3:17pm] eekim: sorry i haven't gotten back to you yet. we can talk here, or i'll email you after this.
    [3:17pm] schiste: hie eekim
    [3:17pm] • effeietsanders was more thinking along the lines of several meetups throughout the world in local languages
    [3:18pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus, the Board of Trustees authorized that committee and worked with staff to identify people to serve on it.
    [3:18pm] eekim: that's exactly what i'd like to see. and so we have to encourage others to organize those.
    [3:18pm] eekim: if we're expected to organize all of those, it's not going to work.
    [3:18pm] eekim: philippe has been drafting a "Meetup Kit" that documents the basics of running a strategy meetup
    [3:18pm] Philippe|Wiki: (meetings either online or IRL)
    [3:18pm] eekim: we'll get that translated
    [3:19pm] eekim: and then all of us should spread the word!
    [3:19pm] ChrisiPK: is there a process to select which proposals to discuss further and implement? right now there are loads of proposals, but no means of categorizing them by feasibility or probability of implementation
    [3:19pm] eekim: there is no single process, because there can't be
    [3:19pm] eekim: different proposals fall under different jurisdictions
    [3:19pm] Philippe|Wiki: ChrisiPK: Delphine has suggested a categorization method at
    [3:19pm] effeietsanders: I assume that the Kit includes documents about what the process is about, and a constantly updates "State of the Strategy"?
    [3:19pm] delphine: ChrisiPK: you might want to participate in the discussion on the village pump
    [3:20pm] ChrisiPK: yea i saw that on the VP, but that is still not a categorization by probability of implementation
    [3:20pm] Philippe|Wiki: effeietsanders: you assume correctly
    [3:20pm] effeietsanders: good
    [3:20pm] eekim: ChrisiPK: the problem is, it's up to different projects as to what the probability of implementation is
    [3:20pm] delphine: ChrisiPK: maybe you could jsut write that
    [3:20pm] eekim: for example, we've already implemented a number of proposals on the strategy wiki
    [3:20pm] ChrisiPK: eekim, well yes, but it was my understanding that the strategy project is to give recommendations to the WMF and the single projects at the end of the planning
    [3:20pm] eekim: the meetup kit was strongly influenced by effeietsanders' proposal, for example
    [3:21pm] ChrisiPK: delphine, will do
    [3:21pm] effeietsanders: (blush)
    [3:21pm] • Dedalus_ thinks that proposals get split up across 16 task forces, each task force will evaluate a subset of the proposals
    [3:21pm] eekim: ChrisiPK, that's correct
    [3:21pm] delphine: ChrisiPK: thank you
    [3:21pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: Some may... not all will, probably
    [3:21pm] eekim: the purpose of the task forces is to make recommendations. that will most likely include references to proposals.
    [3:21pm] ChrisiPK: eekim, so there needs to be a process to select which procedures we recommend in the end, no?
    [3:21pm] ChrisiPK: ah okay
    [3:21pm] effeietsanders: by the way, I have to say that it gets harder and harder to find the information you need on strategy wiki
    [3:21pm] Dedalus_: the meetup kit - is that online somewhere?
    [3:21pm] eekim: right.
    [3:21pm] effeietsanders: because there is such a huge lot of it
    [3:22pm] ChrisiPK: effeietsanders, +1
    [3:22pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: it's still in development... once the first draft is ready, it'll be up
    [3:22pm] eekim: i agree
    [3:22pm] Philippe|Wiki: Which I hope is today
    [3:22pm] eekim: how can we make it easier to navigate?
    [3:22pm] Dedalus_: Philippe|Wiki: what do you propose to do with proposals that won't be considered by any task force?
    [3:22pm] eekim: Dedalus_: encourage others to take a look
    [3:22pm] ChrisiPK: which is exactly why we imho need a way of selecting proposals we would seriously want to discuss...there are quite a few proposals which we basically all know will never be implemented, so bothering users with them is not helpful
    [3:22pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: That seriously depends on the proposal. Some of them will be evaluated by individuals, some by chapters...
    [3:22pm] effeietsanders: eekim: keeping it in mind already helps
    [3:23pm] effeietsanders: eekim: for example, the link in the sitenotice now doesn't really help
    [3:23pm] Philippe|Wiki: ChrisiPK: I encourage you to participate in the VP discussion - these are exactly the types of questions being hashed out there
    [3:23pm] effeietsanders: it just points to an overcrowded village pump
    [3:23pm] Philippe|Wiki: Yeah, not my best sitenotice ever.
    [3:23pm] effeietsanders: (which are, by definition, overcrowded, which is a good thing in general - but not for new people)
    [3:23pm] ChrisiPK: Philippe|Wiki, as i said, the village pump system only categorizes proposals by the size of the step they require us to make, not by "is this even sane?"
    [3:23pm] eekim: liquidthreads may help with that
    [3:24pm] eekim: ChrisiPK, can you really objectively judge the sanity of a proposal?
    [3:24pm] effeietsanders: eekim: only I can
    [3:24pm] effeietsanders: nobody else
    [3:24pm] eekim: i guess we have a process then
    [3:24pm] effeietsanders:
    [3:24pm] Philippe|Wiki: Effe, I think I'm okay with that
    [3:24pm] Dedalus_: how can I gather the reader feedback data per proposal?
    [3:25pm] eekim: i say we anoint effeietsanders as judge
    [3:25pm] ChrisiPK: eekim, i think the community as a whole should be able to do that
    [3:25pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: On each proposal, there's a toolbar link in the left sidebar
    [3:25pm] eekim: how would you propose they do that, ChrisiPK?
    [3:25pm] effeietsanders: Philippe|Wiki: btw, can we make that more visible?
    [3:25pm] effeietsanders: the rating?
    [3:25pm] effeietsanders: more prominent?
    [3:25pm] Philippe|Wiki: The rating tool? or the sidebar link?
    [3:25pm] eekim: good question
    [3:25pm] ChrisiPK: by discussion. there are proposals which have a lot of posts like "this is stupid" on their talk page
    [3:26pm] effeietsanders: for example, a button on the top right corner of the article "rate this proposal"
    [3:26pm] ChrisiPK: we could change the CSS of the rating tool to give it a more prominent color or size
    [3:26pm] eekim: so in general, i'd rather highlight proposals that are good rather than categorize proposals that folks think are "stupid"
    [3:26pm] Philippe|Wiki: effeietsanders: good thought, let me get with Aaron and find out if theres anyhting that already does that in the extension
    [3:26pm] • gopher65 waves hand as one of the people who writes "This is stupid" on talk pages
    [3:26pm] Dedalus_: Philippe|Wiki: thank, I like the information on *all* proposals in one table ... without having to visit manually 750 pages ...
    [3:26pm] gopher65: - without actually rating the article
    [3:26pm] eekim: LOL
    [3:27pm] ChrisiPK: eekim, my point exactly. currently it is almost impossible to distinguish and people cannot find the proposals which do really have a chance of being implemented
    [3:27pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: The tool doesn't do that natively: we're in the process of working out reporting with Aaron, who created it.
    [3:27pm] effeietsanders: and some kind of sorting by average rate would be useful too
    [3:27pm] eekim: ChrisiPK: i agree. and the parallel conversation we're having about rating i think is relevant.
    [3:27pm] effeietsanders: but I assume that can only be done with toolserver tools
    [3:27pm] Philippe|Wiki: effeietsanders: that's also one of the things I talked to Aaron about today - the readerfeedback extension is kind of being bastardized to meet our needs.
    [3:27pm] eekim: so we have an opportunity to improve how ReaderFeedback works.
    [3:27pm] ChrisiPK: Philippe|Wiki, effeietsanders, a button like that could by done by javascript
    [3:27pm] eekim: we just have to ask.
    [3:27pm] effeietsanders: ChrisiPK: that is what I thought about yes
    [3:28pm] eekim: we should start a wiki page where we make suggestions on improving ReaderFeedback
    [3:28pm] effeietsanders: like, on the place where you have a photo in biographies
    [3:28pm] eekim: or, we should just add our comments to the appropriate extension page
    [3:28pm] gopher65: Wikinews uses ReaderFeedback extensively, so any improvement that would make it more reader-friendly would be great
    [3:28pm] effeietsanders: eekim: or we make it a proposal
    [3:28pm] ChrisiPK: i'd rather have a quick and dirty solution for this than ask extension developers to make improvements...usually those take weeks or months, if not years, to be implemented
    [3:28pm] eekim: lol
    [3:28pm] gopher65: for more than just this wiki
    [3:28pm] Philippe|Wiki: ChrisiPK: we've actually had very good response from Aaron
    [3:28pm] effeietsanders: there should be some wiki for that kind of stuff...
    [3:28pm] eekim: no reason we can't do both a quick and dirty solution and a "real" solution
    [3:29pm] ChrisiPK: yes
    [3:29pm] eekim: just need to make coherent suggestions to aaron
    [3:29pm] ChrisiPK: i'm not against recommending improvements, just saying that we need to figure out a short term solution to meet our needs
    [3:29pm] Philippe|Wiki: ChrisiPK: you comfortable with Javascript? Want to make a demo for it?
    [3:29pm] eekim: gopher65, if it helps Wikinews too, all the better
    [3:29pm] ChrisiPK: uh oh
    [3:29pm] Dedalus_: if the reader feedback were in categories, they might have been easier to fetch ... that way i could do things like i showed on
    [3:29pm] effeietsanders:
    [3:29pm] Philippe|Wiki: ChrisiPK: that'll teach you to give an idea.
    [3:29pm] ChrisiPK: i can read and understand most of javascript, but writing it is not really my speciality
    [3:29pm] aude_ joined the chat room.
    [3:29pm] ChrisiPK: hehe
    [3:30pm] ChrisiPK: let me see whether i can dig someone up
    [3:30pm] Philippe|Wiki: Great.... if not, let me know and i'll go to my address book
    [3:30pm] Dedalus_: hi aude
    [3:30pm] ChrisiPK: what is the button supposed to do?
    [3:30pm] eekim: hi aude!
    [3:30pm] Dedalus_: maybe vvv can do something
    [3:30pm] effeietsanders: hmmm, could someone adapt the namespace of Special:Random ?
    [3:31pm] Philippe|Wiki: <shrug> was your idea.
    [3:31pm] Philippe|Wiki: You and effeietsanders
    [3:31pm] effeietsanders: ChrisiPK: it should bring the user to the bottom of the page
    [3:31pm] kibble: effeietsanders, yes
    [3:31pm] effeietsanders: where the rating is located
    [3:31pm] ChrisiPK: effeietsanders,
    [3:31pm] effeietsanders: ChrisiPK: wow
    [3:31pm] ChrisiPK: does that have an anchor?
    [3:31pm] effeietsanders: cool!
    [3:31pm] kibble: ChrisiPK, stealing my thunder
    [3:32pm] aude_: hey
    [3:32pm] eekim: i still maintain that at least for the purposes of the strategy project, i'd rather just see a thumbs up icon like Facebook's
    [3:32pm] ChrisiPK: i suggested adding this link to the sidebar
    [3:32pm] Philippe|Wiki: ChrisiPK - I remember that... and I seem to have never done it.
    [3:32pm] Philippe|Wiki: oops
    [3:32pm] Philippe|Wiki: (you should always feel free to remind me of stuff....)
    [3:32pm] ChrisiPK:
    [3:33pm] aude_ left the chat room.
    [3:33pm] ChrisiPK: afaik it was rejected
    [3:33pm] kibble: eekim, but we need an "unlike" facebook needs one of those
    [3:33pm] Philippe|Wiki: If I rejected it, I don't remember why, and i"m not opposed to it now... so unless someone else objects we should do it
    [3:33pm] eekim: i unlike an "unlike" feature
    [3:33pm] kibble:
    [3:34pm] Dedalus_: OK do we all support, or are there any objections, to going to the next phase, starting tomorrow by sending an appeal letter with a call for participation?
    [3:34pm] Dedalus_: ... nobody signed
    [3:34pm] ChrisiPK:
    [3:34pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus, I left a message on your talk page about the resolution
    [3:35pm] aude left the chat room. (Nick collision from services.)
    [3:35pm] eekim: Dedalus, I loved it in spirit too
    [3:35pm] eekim: i'd also love to see a more informal version
    [3:35pm] Philippe|Wiki: Thanks ChrisiPK: it looks like i didn't forget to do it, but I don't think it's a bad idea
    [3:35pm] Philippe|Wiki: so let's do it
    [3:35pm] effeietsanders: Dedalus_: :S
    [3:35pm] ChrisiPK: okay are you doing it?
    [3:35pm] Philippe|Wiki: It's on my list
    [3:35pm] aude joined the chat room.
    [3:36pm] eekim: frankly, i think we ought to have some kind of celebration once this Call for Participation is over, and we're officially into another phase
    [3:36pm] Philippe|Wiki: Unless someone else wants to
    [3:36pm] eekim: virtual beers on Philippe
    [3:36pm] Philippe|Wiki: sure, and we can take it out eekim's budget.
    [3:36pm] eekim: they'll be tiny virtual beers
    [3:37pm] ChrisiPK: okay but please make the message translatable and don't add it like the VP and FB links
    [3:37pm] Philippe|Wiki: And Dedalus_, I want to clarify: we're not sending an appeal letter, although that's what we've called it....
    [3:37pm] Philippe|Wiki: it's actually served via centralnotice
    [3:37pm] Dedalus_: will the results of "Additional knowledge was gathered through interviews with WMF staff, Board and Advisory Board members, Wikimedia Community members, and external people with expertise and/or interest in Wikimedia's mission and operations." be shared somewhere?
    [3:37pm] eekim: absolutely
    [3:37pm] eekim: i'm pretty annoyed that it's not already on the wiki yet, to be honest with you
    [3:38pm] Philippe|Wiki: +1
    [3:38pm] eekim: going to a meeting later today to push that
    [3:38pm] eekim: in fairness, not everyone working on this is that comfortable with wikis
    [3:39pm] • Dedalus_ I hope I didn't upset Serita too much with my welcome message ...
    [3:39pm] eekim: doubt it, dedalus
    [3:39pm] eekim: i like how you've been approaching people overall
    [3:40pm] eekim: ask the hard questions, and encourage people to share/learn/contribute
    [3:40pm] Dedalus_: ... while trying not to scare them away ...
    [3:40pm] eekim: exactly
    [3:41pm] eekim: be nice, be constructive, be honest
    [3:41pm] Dedalus_: you are adding two proposals!
    [3:41pm] aude: eekim: at wikimania, we chatted about types of data analysis that can be done to support the planning process
    [3:41pm] Philippe|Wiki: I would remind everyone that we're likely to see a lot of new users tomorrow... and this is a good time to think about how we welcome them and convert them into active participation, as well
    [3:41pm] • Dedalus_ we have be nice already thanks to effeietsanders
    [3:42pm] eekim: aude: Yup. Some ideas are at:
    [3:42pm] Philippe|Wiki: (and also remind everyone that we're likely to see some disruption tomorrow, so keep your fingers ready to undo)
    [3:42pm] aude: is there a list of what's being done, and any results or other such info on the wiki
    [3:42pm] eekim: aude: there isn't a list yet, and so i should make one
    [3:43pm] eekim: there's some open source analysis code at:
    [3:43pm] geniice: no one has ever really worked out how to keep retention above average for any one group
    [3:43pm] eekim: it's very preliminary
    [3:43pm] eekim: the harder part is figuring out what exactly we should measure
    [3:43pm] aude: i was willing to help with some (my maps and analysis), though perhaps the bridgeman group is handling it
    [3:43pm] eekim: nope, bridgespan group isn't touching this
    [3:44pm] eekim: would love your help
    [3:44pm] FloNight: aude:yes. I'm interested in data that can support the process and be used to measure outcomes.
    [3:44pm] eekim: hi FloNight. fantastic!
    [3:44pm] Philippe|Wiki: aude, I am certain that Serita had told me she was interested in chatting with you about that...
    [3:44pm] Philippe|Wiki: I'll make a note to see where she is on that
    [3:44pm] aude: - this still needs lots of work, but it maps (geocoded ips) the recent anon edits to enwiki
    [3:44pm] eekim: ah, my mistake aude
    [3:44pm] eekim: i'm thinking about analytics for the process itself. you're talking about analytics supporting the process.
    [3:44pm] aude: statistics could be built from that and more
    [3:45pm] eekim: yes, serita is definitely interested in this, and we could use all the help we can get
    [3:45pm] aude: the ultimate idea was to take a country (e.g. Egypt), look at all the wiki contributions from there and see how many are going to english vs. arabic
    [3:45pm] Philippe|Wiki: OK, just sent Serita a note
    [3:46pm] aude: so far, very preliminary, i found it 50% / 50%
    [3:46pm] _sj_ joined the chat room.
    [3:46pm] aude: looking at a single wiki (arwiki), i found most of the contributions came from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and some from Jordan (and some from Europe) while other countries were well underrepresented
    [3:46pm] eekim: wow, that's super cool!
    [3:47pm] eekim: how recent is recent in your map?
    [3:47pm] FloNight: aude:interesting indeed!
    [3:47pm] aude: much more can be done, though it would take some time and effort
    [3:47pm] aude: my map is current - calling the mediawiki api
    [3:47pm] aude: i need to tie some stuff together in the code to make it work for all languages
    [3:49pm] _sj_: aude: underrepresented by what measure?
    [3:49pm] eekim: hey _sj_
    [3:49pm] _sj_: <and hello all>
    [3:49pm] Philippe|Wiki: HI Sj
    [3:50pm] aude: sj: here are my slides from wikimania 2008 -
    [3:50pm] Dedalus_: selecting Dutch (Nederlands) on aude map, I notice the majority of edits come from outside the Netherlands, and the world over .... Dutch is really a world language ...
    [3:50pm] • Philippe|Wiki stole the url to send serita
    [3:51pm] aude: basically, a country like morocco, the vast majority went to enwiki even though people do speak arabic there
    [3:51pm] aude: for syria, arabic wikipedia happened to be blocked (not sure it still is) so hardly any contributions came from there
    [3:52pm] cary is now known as cary-afk.
    [3:52pm] aude: and a less affluent country like yemen, they have hardly any contributors at least showing up as ip edits
    [3:53pm] geniice: well to be expected
    [3:53pm] geniice: in countries where only the more wealthy can get online the more wealthy are likely to speak english
    [3:53pm] aude: dedalus_: the language selector doesn't work yet- i had an older version of this done with google maps that i used with previous analysis
    [3:54pm] aude: some languages like urdu see a substantial portion of edits from outside pakistan (e.g. europe)
    [3:55pm] aude: that could be true for african languages but i didn't look at that yet
    [3:55pm] geniice: incerdently these is where en blocks people:
    [3:55pm] geniice:
    [3:55pm] Tango42_ joined the chat room.
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    [3:56pm] cary-afk is now known as cary.
    [3:56pm] Philippe|Wiki: You know, it's amazing... I get no mail for an hour, then 15 at once. and all "THE MOST IMPORTANT EMAIL OF THE DAY"
    [3:57pm] Philippe|Wiki:
    [3:57pm] Tango42 left the chat room. (Nick collision from services.)
    [3:57pm] delphine: can't be
    [3:57pm] aude: i suspect the range blocks are mostly schools, due to juvenile edits
    [3:57pm] delphine: I didn't send you one
    [3:57pm] delphine:
    [3:57pm] Tango42_ is now known as Tango42.
    [3:57pm] Philippe|Wiki: delphine: that reminds me... must set "junk mail" filters.  :: runs ::
    [3:57pm] delphine:
    [3:57pm] geniice: aude schools do not normaly have /12 ranges
    [3:58pm] geniice: Philippe|Wiki italian chapter issues
    [3:58pm] geniice: ?
    [3:58pm] Philippe|Wiki: geniice: those wouldn't affect me
    [3:58pm] Philippe|Wiki: at least not directly
    [3:58pm] geniice: /16 ranges rather
    [3:58pm] Dedalus_: geniice: your map shows Africans are nice people, hardly any blocks in Africa ...
    [3:58pm] geniice: Dedalus_ harly any IPs in africa to block
    [3:59pm] Dedalus_: add a smiley for geniice some strategic issue about reach ...
    [3:59pm] effeietsanders: haha
    [3:59pm] effeietsanders: all of the netherlands is red
    [3:59pm] Dedalus_: blocked ip map is a map of reach ...
    [4:00pm] geniice: Dedalus you also got to remeber that due proxy issues there are some countries that can be neutralised by blocking a few IPs
    [4:00pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: that's an interesting point
    [4:00pm] geniice: heh back when we get censored by the IWF we ended up blocking a fair chunk of the UK but only a small number of IPs
    [4:01pm] Dedalus_: ... only 1 dot on a map, isn't it?
    [4:02pm] ChrisiPK: Philippe|Wiki,
    [4:02pm] Dedalus_: ok, do we have MediaWiki developers in the loop of strategizing, and hearing their view on the future of the movement?
    [4:02pm] ChrisiPK: needs a bit of fancy and it's ready to go
    [4:02pm] eekim: Dedalus: not enough
    [4:02pm] Philippe|Wiki: Dedalus_: That's a huge hole in our operations right now. Eugene has been working with Ariel and Brion on that
    [4:02pm] _sj_: aude : have you talked to anyone about getting anonymized IP data from all editors to improve the map?
    [4:03pm] eekim: and hopefully aude
    [4:03pm] eekim: and many others
    [4:03pm] aude: talked some with brion at wikimania, and think erik also has a say in that.
    [4:04pm] Dedalus_: this is what I got from a developer: < vvv>Ah, I will surely quit if Brion and co won't establish a stable working code review process
    [4:05pm] eekim: are there devs here right now?
    [4:05pm] _sj_: Philippe|Wiki, how about the long tail of mediawiki devs who don't dream of their code being included in the core?
    [4:06pm] Philippe|Wiki: _sj_ absolutely - they need to be included as well... that's hopefully part of eekim's discussion
    [4:06pm] _sj_: most of them have no reason to hang out with wikimedians, save for crossover with mediawiki-l (if they take part on that list; most just read it occasionally or browse the archives)
    [4:07pm] geniice: but with good reason
    [4:07pm] _sj_: so aside from general omniscience, I'm not sure that's the same discussion at al
    [4:07pm] eekim: _sj_, do you have ideas on how to engage with them?
    [4:07pm] geniice: last thing you want when toy are trying to code is a bunch of wikipedians screeming about their pet feature
    [4:07pm] _sj_: wasn't there a non-wikimedian mediawiki collab at some point?
    [4:08pm] eekim: geniice: i can definitely empathize with that
    [4:08pm] Rowan joined the chat room.
    [4:08pm] Dedalus_: eekim i think vvv (a developer) is already sleeping ...
    [4:08pm] atglenn joined the chat room.
    [4:08pm] eekim: thanks, dedalus
    [4:08pm] geniice: _sj_ there are various forks
    [4:08pm] atglenn: lies, I tell you, it's all lies
    [4:08pm] atglenn left the chat room.
    [4:08pm] eekim: we'll catch him at the next office hours when it will hopefully be more convenient
    [4:09pm] eekim: *laugh* hey, atglenn!
    [4:09pm] eekim: whoops, left before we could razz him
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    [4:09pm] Rowan: what else did you expect?
    [4:10pm] eekim: Rowan: about what?
    [4:10pm] Philippe|Wiki: Hey folks, I'm going to have to disappear... I have much work to do before our next meeting today....
    [4:10pm] _sj_: hi rand
    [4:10pm] Philippe|Wiki: Thanks for being here, feel free to find me at any time if I can help with anything