IRC office hours/2010-06-29

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eekim: okay, it's 1pm, let's get started!

[1:01pm] Blurpeace: Hi eekim
[1:01pm] Amgine: <pops cork, pours sparkling>
[1:01pm] eekim: so this is the last office hours
[1:01pm] eekim: although, there will be some type of virtual celebration next week
[1:01pm] eekim: and we should decide what that will entail
[1:02pm] eekim: it should include Amgine's virtual champagne
[1:02pm] Philippe: I just came from a staff presentation on Webex, btw... we can only have 25 participants in "presentation/screenshare/video" mode, but audio mode seems to not have a max that we're likely to hit.
[1:03pm] eekim: will someone take notes on http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Process/Celebration?
[1:03pm] eekim: is there some kind of video group thing we could do?
[1:03pm] Tempodivalse: So I've heard that the strategy wiki could be closed or merged.
[1:03pm] Philippe: eekim: max of 25 participants on webex
[1:03pm] Philippe: for video
[1:03pm] eekim: will that show everybody participating?
[1:03pm] DG|away: <waves>
[1:03pm] eekim: hi DG
[1:03pm] Philippe: everyone who is logged into the software, who wishes to
[1:04pm] eekim: okay, that's an interesting option
[1:04pm] eekim: to answer Tempodivalse's question...
[1:04pm] eekim: the current plan is to see if strategy can be used as a place to self-organize around volunteer opportunities
[1:04pm] eekim: check out the new main page: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/
[1:04pm] ShakataGaNai joined the chat room.
[1:05pm] eekim: you can see we added a new dashboard to try and encourage more action around proposals
[1:05pm] eekim: hi ShakataGaNai
[1:05pm] ShakataGaNai: yo
[1:05pm] Philippe: many props to werdna for building the gizmo dashboard at the bottom
[1:05pm] eekim: and TimStarling
[1:05pm] Philippe: and Tim
[1:05pm] Tempodivalse: hmm, ok ...
[1:05pm] Tempodivalse: I've heard suggestions that it be rolled back into meta
[1:05pm] Tempodivalse: is that anything more than a rumour?
[1:06pm] eekim: nope, that suggestion is still on the table
[1:06pm] eekim: at the end of the day, it's really up to all of you
[1:06pm] eekim: this project is done, but if this space can be a valuable community space, then i hope it will stay up
[1:07pm] eekim: but we shouldn't keep it up for the sake of keeping it up
[1:07pm] eekim: if it makes more sense to merge it into meta, we should do that
[1:07pm] FT2: We will have a number of "specific project" wikis over time
[1:07pm] FT2: a central repository or index of them would be sensible
[1:07pm] eekim: more specific than wikimedia.org?
[1:07pm] FT2: they are as much part of the history of the project as any page revisions
[1:08pm] Amgine: Query: What is the "final product" of the strategy project?
[1:08pm] • bawolff was wondering that too
[1:08pm] eekim: five year strategic plan for the movement
[1:08pm] eekim: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Plan
[1:08pm] FT2: well, create a policy on "retired wikis" - rename them to strategy.retired.wikimedia.org or whatever if they are not in ongoing use, ratheer than delete them.
[1:08pm] eekim: not quite done yet
[1:09pm] Philippe: FT2 - there is NO discussion about deleting the wiki. There's great content there that should not be lost.
[1:09pm] eekim: would encourage you all to go and check it out, especially the Movement Priorities page
[1:09pm] FT2: ok
[1:09pm] Tempodivalse: might be better for us on Meta, considering we'd get more admin help and the like, could also get more attention. But, would all of this be in Meta's scope?
[1:09pm] eekim: i think it would be in Meta's scope
[1:10pm] eekim: one of the advantages of having our own space was that we could innovate faster
[1:10pm] eekim: we were the first project to use Vector, LiquidThreads, etc.
[1:10pm] eekim: we have the Proposal and Task Force generator (which we copied), and now we have the Proposal Dashboard
[1:10pm] DG|away left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[1:10pm] eekim: we tried using ReaderFeedback, although that experiment didn't go well
[1:10pm] Philippe: we mildly copied the task force generator. it was mostly new code
[1:11pm] eekim: not sure if we would have been able to innovate as fast as we did on Meta. could be wrong, though.
[1:11pm] eekim: and frankly, not sure how Meta would feel about a merger. For example, would there be issues around LiquidThreads?
[1:12pm] Amgine: Query: Most strategy plans include measurement towards goals. Is measurement an element of the 5 year plan?
[1:13pm] eekim: yes. see http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Plan/Movement_Priorities
[1:15pm] Diego_Grez joined the chat room.
[1:15pm] bawolff: I see a lot of goals like "have 99.9% uptime", but not saying what we're currently at
[1:16pm] eekim: we don't know that yet, bawolff
[1:16pm] bawolff: I'm just kind of curious as to how much of an improvement that would be
[1:16pm] bawolff: Thats a good reason not to have them
[1:16pm] eekim: that speaks to how important it is for us to beef our infrastructural support now -- we don't even have these numbers
[1:16pm] eekim:
[1:17pm] FT2: reading ..
[1:17pm] eekim: one of the positive things that will emerge from this process is that we'll actually start measuring things
[1:17pm] eekim: it's incredible the things we don't know but should
[1:17pm] eekim: things like our current uptime
[1:18pm] dami_hun joined the chat room.
[1:18pm] eekim: welcome, dami_hun
[1:18pm] lyzzy: to find fitting measurement criterias is not easy
[1:18pm] eekim: definitely not
[1:18pm] lyzzy: there are still sme missing in the tables
[1:18pm] Philippe: also impoortant to say that our definition of "uptime" is rigorous... it includes more than the website
[1:19pm] eekim: any ideas on how to fill them in, lyzzy?
[1:19pm] Jamesofur: Philippe: what does it include?
[1:19pm] Philippe: it also includes things like wikimail, our internal wikis, etc.
[1:19pm] lyzzy: perhaps we can try to figure it out in the discussion page
[1:19pm] lyzzy: i worked on a single table a few days ago
[1:20pm] Jamesofur: and so if 1 project/system is down we count it as "down" or counting each uptime separately?
[1:20pm] eekim: let's do that, lyzzy
[1:20pm] lyzzy: and thought about bringing mre people together to fill the missing pieces
[1:20pm] eekim: if anything goes down, it counts as part of our total uptime
[1:20pm] eekim: but it's a reasonable question whether that's how we should measure
[1:20pm] eekim: project uptime is clearly more important than, say, wikimail
[1:20pm] FT2: I can think of a few key downtimes
[1:21pm] Amgine: Depends on your weighting model, eekim.
[1:21pm] FT2: but a major one is downtime as in "would a reader notice". For example how often does a squid go down or a page can't be cached from the db, in a way that a reader would notice
[1:21pm] FT2: second is how often is editing impacted
[1:22pm] Diego_Grez left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:22pm] eekim: good points, FT2
[1:23pm] geniice joined the chat room.
[1:23pm] eekim: welcome, geniice
[1:24pm] FT2: If there are 100 squids but internal rerouting/failover means that most times when one stalls, it's immediately handled by another squid, then internally it matters, but externally its a "No fail"
[1:24pm] eekim: as people continue to mull the movement priorities, i also want to point folks to the Call for Actions
[1:24pm] eekim: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Call_for_action
[1:24pm] eekim: we're planning on doing a CentralNotice starting tonight that points to this page
[1:25pm] lyzzy: how is this planned to be spread?
[1:25pm] eekim: would love thoughts on that
[1:25pm] eekim: CentralNotice + email
[1:25pm] lyzzy: ok - i am too slow
[1:25pm] eekim:
[1:26pm] Amgine: According to a suggestion in #wikimedia-tech, uptime measurement could be qa polled from an external server.
[1:26pm] geniice: CentralNotice=Do not touch
[1:26pm] Jamesofur: aye, exactly FT2, I would generally say that we should do uptime on a per system basis (or at least per project/system) people are generally going to want the data for a project (en for example or commons) not for everything as a whole (which they won't really care about) my guess is that we would have to have some idea of "what" counts as uptime (do 90% of the audience need to be able to reach the servers, 99%?, 100%?) I know we hav
[1:26pm] Jamesofur: e had times when certain countries only couldn't because of certain servers going down
[1:26pm] Jamesofur: email = mailing lists I assume?
[1:26pm] bawolff: stupid question, maybe i misunderstand its point, but i thought http://nagios.wikimedia.org/ recorded downtime somehow
[1:27pm] FT2: too narrow a focus for the last meeting. If there is a place where it's discussed what mettrics apply to "uptime" maybe let me know?
[1:27pm] • Jamesofur checks the central notice
[1:27pm] Philippe: Jamesofur, it's a previous centralnotice... it's strategy3, i believe
[1:27pm] Philippe: we're reusing it since it was translated
[1:28pm] Jamesofur: kk, was about to ask if there was a new one cause I didn't see one lol
[1:28pm] eekim: there's an analytics task force. that would be a good place to continue discussing uptime. http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Task_force/Analytics
[1:28pm] Jamesofur: lazy bastards
[1:28pm] Philippe: yes.
[1:28pm] Jamesofur: out of my own heart <3
[1:28pm] Philippe:
[1:28pm] eekim: why create when you can reuse
[1:28pm] geniice: FT2 uptime is something companies like to advertise. The result is the BS about it piles up so fast you need wings to stay above it
[1:30pm] eekim: thx for fixing the German translation, lyzzy
[1:30pm] lyzzy: np
[1:31pm] lyzzy: is there a link to the central notice text?
[1:31pm] Philippe: Sure, holdon, lemme grab it
[1:31pm] lyzzy: i can't find it on meta
[1:32pm] lyzzy: ok
[1:33pm] lyzzy: what i wanted to say and forgot it each time:
[1:33pm] lyzzy: i really like the look of the startegy wiki
[1:33pm] Philippe: http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/view&template=strategicplan2&wpUserLanguage=all
[1:33pm] lyzzy: with the boxes and the different font-sizes
[1:33pm] eekim: thanks, lyzzy
[1:33pm] lyzzy: it makes it easy to find the important things
[1:33pm] Philippe: Thanks, lyzzy
[1:34pm] eekim: that's really great to here. Philippe really did a great job with that page.
[1:34pm] eekim: plus all the folks who contributed to it before.
[1:35pm] eekim: here = hear
[1:35pm] • Philippe did very little of that, actually, but i'm very fond of my icons
[1:36pm] dami_hun: is it just me or http://volunteer.wikimedia.org/ really does lead to a winamp playlist?
[1:36pm] eekim: wow, dami_hun. good catch. that's bizarre.
[1:36pm] • werdna is propped
[1:37pm] eekim: hey werdna
[1:37pm] werdna: hello hello
[1:37pm] lyzzy: i showed it to some wikipedians as an example for using more font-based design
[1:37pm] lyzzy: hi werdna
[1:37pm] Philippe: werdna, uhm... can you check out what dami_hun just noted?
[1:37pm] Philippe: why is the subdomain volunteer. leading to a winamp list?
[1:37pm] werdna: ...
[1:37pm] werdna: lol.
[1:37pm] FT2: winamp.wikimedia.org
[1:37pm] FT2: grins
[1:38pm] Philippe: not even great songs
[1:38pm] Philippe: i mean, 'cmon.
[1:38pm] eekim: we should at least be able to edit the playlist
[1:38pm] bawolff: lol
[1:38pm] lyzzy: we could work on a strategy play list when celebrating
[1:38pm] Philippe: "needs moar AC/DC"
[1:39pm] Jamesofur: wow... that is bad
[1:39pm] • Jamesofur never noticed that though, yay easter eggs!
[1:40pm] Jamesofur: and all the click me's are 404's!
[1:40pm] Jamesofur: booo
[1:40pm] Philippe: listfail
[1:41pm] Philippe: So actually, this would be a good time to do one last beg for translations for the call for action....
[1:41pm] Philippe: http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Call_for_action
[1:41pm] Jamesofur: translation mailing list?
[1:41pm] Jamesofur: (which I think is members only so find someone already on it)
[1:41pm] Philippe: Jamesofur: they've seen it once before, but wouldn't hurt anything...
[1:41pm] Philippe: i'm on it
[1:42pm] Jamesofur: aye, but once they've seen it and moved on they rarely move back, so if it has been more then a couple weeks certainly worth a nother one
[1:42pm] Jamesofur: *another
[1:42pm] Jamesofur: I find they tend to respond either quickly or not at all
[1:42pm] Philippe: fair point that
[1:42pm] geniice: I find it somewhat suprising that no one has mass recorded all those folk songs Cecil Sharp collected
[1:42pm] werdna: Philippe: fred's response: "What the fuck?"
[1:42pm] werdna: Philippe: where is it supposed to point?
[1:43pm] Philippe: lol@Fred
[1:43pm] Philippe: werdna, should be a dead domain at this point.
[1:43pm] eekim: it used to point to a volunteer app we had set up
[1:43pm] eekim: back in september
[1:43pm] eekim: ah, i know what happened
[1:43pm] werdna: oh?
[1:43pm] eekim: werdna, i'm coming into the office after this. i'll tell you and fred directly.
[1:43pm] eekim: unless others want to hear the explanation.
[1:44pm] werdna: ok
[1:44pm] dami_hun: yes, we'd like to
[1:44pm] werdna: well he's dropping the domain
[1:44pm] eekim: that's the right solution
[1:44pm] werdna: ok
[1:44pm] Philippe: oh wait, someone else hosted the app, didn't they?
[1:44pm] eekim: we wrote a custom app to solicit volunteers for task forces last october
[1:44pm] eekim: exactly, philippe
[1:44pm] Philippe: ding ding ding.... and he's reusing that IP
[1:45pm] Philippe: and we never killed the pointer.
[1:45pm] Philippe: note to self
[1:45pm] eekim: exactly
[1:45pm] eekim: he's not reusing that IP. we canceled our VPS. someone else got that IP.
[1:45pm] Philippe: ahhhh
[1:45pm] eekim: wouldn't have happened if we could have hosted it off the wikimedia servers. *grumble*
[1:45pm] Philippe: heh, funny
[1:46pm] Philippe: there's humor there. The real question is, "how many people have accidentally clicked through"
[1:47pm] eekim: that is an excellent question
[1:47pm] eekim: wish we had better analytics
[1:47pm] eekim: okay, folks
[1:47pm] eekim: about ten more minutes until our final office hours are over
[1:47pm] eekim: as i said, we'll do some kind of virtual celebration next week at Wikimania
[1:48pm] eekim: would love to get people's ideas on how to celebrate
[1:48pm] eekim: video is one
[1:48pm] eekim: i'd also love to just do an hour on IRC where people reflect on the process and the outcome
[1:49pm] eekim: and where we can appreciate each other. so many people contributed to this process.
[1:49pm] bawolff left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[1:50pm] bawolff joined the chat room.
[1:51pm] Philippe: eekim: what's the latest number for contributors?
[1:52pm] eekim: good question!
[1:52pm] eekim: and it looks like we got new dumps today!
[1:52pm] eekim: i'll process those this afternoon and let folks know
[1:52pm] eekim: i'm hoping we passed the 1,000 contributor mark
[1:52pm] Philippe: if we're sitting at 999 or something, i'm creating a sock, I'm just sayin.
[1:53pm] • eekim laughs
[1:53pm] eekim: okay folks, so a few things I hope people will help with over the next few days
[1:54pm] eekim: 1. review / edit / discuss movement priorities http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Plan/Movement_Priorities
[1:54pm] eekim: 2. spread the word / monitor the wiki for our call for action + sign up for things http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Call_for_action
[1:55pm] eekim: 3. come celebrate with us next week! more news to come.
[1:55pm] eekim: many, many thanks to all of you for making this such a fun process
[1:55pm] Philippe: On that note, it's worth saying that Eekim has not had the easiest job in the world. I'm kinda stubborn. So thanks for the year.
[1:55pm] eekim: and for contributing in such substantial ways
[1:56pm] GerardM-: sorry to be late
[1:56pm] eekim: welcome, GerardM-
[1:56pm] eekim: don't worry, we'll celebrate next week
[1:56pm] eekim: thanks, Philippe. nothing worthwhile is easy.
[1:57pm] eekim: still got a week and a half to go, but the project has been a blast
[1:57pm] eekim: i am humbled by all the work all of you put into this
[1:57pm] eekim: we had great attendance at all of our office hours, which we did once a week for a year
[1:57pm] eekim: so many substantial discussions and good work
[1:57pm] eekim: amazing
[1:58pm] Philippe: There are nearly 500 total pages of office hours, by the way... if you should print it... which I didn't
[1:58pm] eekim: save the trees!
[1:59pm] eekim: maybe we'll hit 500 after this one
[1:59pm] Philippe: it's a file
[1:59pm] Jamesofur: you, stubborn? never would have imagined it. What time is the CN planning on going out?
[1:59pm] Philippe: about two hours from now
[1:59pm] eekim: later today
[1:59pm] Jamesofur: ah
[2:00pm] • Jamesofur isn't sure why he asked the question given that the control page was in front of him...
[2:00pm] dami_hun: on all wikis? what percentage of readership?
[2:00pm] Jamesofur: no one saw that
[2:00pm] eekim: saw what, Jamesofur?
[2:00pm] Jamesofur: oh look a bunny!
[2:00pm] eekim: dami_hun, what are you asking about?
[2:01pm] Philippe: dami_hun: it will be to logged in users only
[2:01pm] Jamesofur: right now it is only set up for en... which probably isn't what we want
[2:01pm] eekim: ah
[2:01pm] eekim: for now, yes, Jamesofur
[2:01pm] Jamesofur: oh k
[2:01pm] eekim: we didn't feel like we had enough translations yet
[2:01pm] Jamesofur: fair enough
[2:01pm] • Jamesofur takes out the whip on Philippe
[2:01pm] Philippe: hey, i set it correctly!
[2:02pm] eekim: okay, everybody
[2:02pm] Jamesofur: that was to get more translations
[2:02pm] eekim: appropriate that the whip was pulled out as a final act for these office hours
[2:02pm] eekim: thank you everyone
[2:02pm] dami_hun: would have noted that it might clash with the vector deployment sitenotices, but if En.wiki only than there is no problem
[2:02pm] Philippe: Jamesofur: ever tried to wrangle translators? Herding cats
[2:02pm] eekim: see you on strategy wiki!
[2:02pm] Philippe: dami_hun: the vector schedule was taken into account on it
[2:02pm] eekim: and looking forward to celebrating with all of you next week!
[2:02pm] Philippe: See you all on the wiki