IRC office hours/2010-02-23

    From Strategic Planning

    Philippe|Wiki: Shall we get started? Eekim won't be able to join us today...

    [2:00pm] Bodnotbod: Are doing it in the QUESTION format?
    [2:01pm] Philippe|Wiki: I don't really have any fixed agenda for today, but thought we'd sort of chat about where we are and I'll field any questions we have and punt the rest
    [2:01pm] Ziko: hora est
    [2:01pm] lyzzy joined the chat room.
    [2:01pm] Philippe|Wiki: nah, the QUESTION format is just forthe Foundation's office hours.
    [2:01pm] Philippe|Wiki: This is informal
    [2:01pm] Bodnotbod: OK
    [2:01pm] Philippe|Wiki: Hey lyzzy!
    [2:01pm] lyzzy: hi Philippe|Wiki, hi al
    [2:01pm] lyzzy: all
    [2:02pm] Bodnotbod: Are you going to kick off with some opening comments? Or can I just start raising some thoughts?
    [2:02pm] Philippe|Wiki: Think away, Bodnotbod...
    [2:02pm] Ziko: go on, then follows me
    [2:03pm] Bodnotbod: OK, well, as can be seen on the wiki, now that we're in this "synthesis" phase everyone seems rather stuck. A few people know not what to do. Others are very wary of synthesising because it feels like we'll be ejecting content that the TFs worked hard to come up with. So I feel some direction is needed and possibly a decision that 'synthesising' is not the way forward.
    [2:04pm] • Philippe|Wiki nods.
    [2:04pm] Philippe|Wiki: I think that perhaps part of the problem is that we're - none of us - really sure how this is supposed to work, so we're kind of experimenting as we go.
    [2:04pm] Bodnotbod: Yes, quite so.
    [2:04pm] Philippe|Wiki: Eekim and I have been distracted, getting things ready for the Board meeting and then in the take-away from the Board meeting, and we haven't been able to focus as much on the wiki as we would have liked.
    [2:04pm] Philippe|Wiki: We own that.
    [2:05pm] Philippe|Wiki: Did you see Eugene's comment on this on Village Pump today?
    [2:05pm] Ziko: I believe that "synthesing" is important. You know that page with the "results" of the interviews with internet experts? That is a nice collection of thoughts, but it is not a real text and so it is difficult to digest. On the other hand, I enjoyed reading the report about China.
    [2:05pm] Bodnotbod: No, I haven't seen that yet.
    [2:06pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko: The china stuff was really fantastic, wasn't it? And I love reading the interviews that were done. There's so much knowledge in that section that I want to - at some point - focus on distilling to make sure we don't lose it.
    [2:06pm] Bodnotbod: Ziko, I don't mean "no synthesising for the strat wiki!", I'm referring specifically to the recommendations the Task Forces came up with,
    [2:06pm] Philippe|Wiki:
    [2:06pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: that link above is Eekims comment
    [2:06pm] Ziko: Well, the interviews themselves - I would have liked them to be more streamlined into an interview I would read in a newspaper
    [2:07pm] Ziko: Bodnotbod, I am looking
    [2:07pm] Philippe|Wiki: Basically, what he's saying is that we need to take the work that was done, and figure out how to move forward
    [2:07pm] Philippe|Wiki: Beginning with the proposals, figuring out how to implement those that make sense, and figuring out how to take the work of the task forces to the next steps as well
    [2:07pm] Ziko: Bodnotbod, it does not show anything in my browser, but I believe that I understand
    [2:08pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko: add a close parenthesis at the end of the link that I sent
    [2:08pm] Bodnotbod: Ziko, you just need to add a close bracket to the end (it's not me that sent the link BTW)
    [2:08pm] Ziko: Philippe, such kind of work seems to me be more something for an individual and not for collaborative work (at least not the draft)
    [2:09pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko, that sounds like an awfully big job for an individual... there are, what, 900 proposals?
    [2:09pm] Philippe|Wiki: and about 50 recommendations from task forces?
    [2:09pm] Bodnotbod: Argh! Don't say that Ziko! I demand to have my input into the process!
    [2:09pm] Ziko: okay, okay
    [2:09pm] Ziko: or a team
    [2:10pm] Ziko: anyway, it is only about to collect thoughts, not "decisions"?
    [2:10pm] Philippe|Wiki: So, here's the "inside baseball" - we - Eugene and I - really feel very strongly that there needs to be a "who does what" discussion. That means that chapters need to get involved and say "I commit to doing XYZ", and individuals or teams do the same thing...
    [2:10pm] Bodnotbod: Philippe, I had sort of viewed the proposals as the units which built up the recommendations. But now you seem to be saying we're going to drop down to proposal level again. I'm not saying...
    [2:11pm] Bodnotbod: ...proposals should be left out in the cold, but I rather thought we'd moved on from them as regards the process. So this is going to take me some adjustment.
    [2:11pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko: we're operating under a rough consensus decision-making process: the Foundation reserves the right, through its board and executive director, to make decisions for itself, but the movement as a whole is governed by all of us... chapters by their membership
    [2:11pm] Ziko: (this is the moment when everybody looks at his feet)
    [2:12pm] Ziko: Philippe: yes, indeed
    [2:12pm] Bodnotbod: lol Ziko
    [2:12pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: When we initially accepted proposals, we weren't sure exactly how to fold them in - we just knew that there was an outcry of ideas that needed a place to live. Some of them made it into the task force recommendations, and most didn't. But there are some great ideas there.
    [2:12pm] Philippe|Wiki: It would be a shame to walk away from those great ideas.
    [2:13pm] Philippe|Wiki: So last week (or maybe two weeks ago?) we had a really fantastic discussion with some chapters folks about movement roles. We hope that more of that will happen at the Chapters meeting in Berlin in April.
    [2:13pm] Philippe|Wiki: But what we need to do, as a group, is to figure out "so where do we go from here?"
    [2:13pm] Bodnotbod: I agree with not abandoning the ideas. But as you say there's hundreds of proposals. One would hope the best have made it into or are reflected in the recommendations. And the number of recommendations is manageable which strikes me as rather important at this stage.
    [2:14pm] lyzzy: Philippe|Wiki: before starting the "who does what" discussion: is it clear enough what needs to done?
    [2:14pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: no question, recommendations are a solid and very reliable place to start.
    [2:14pm] Philippe|Wiki: lyzzy: talk more about that?
    [2:14pm] Bodnotbod: I think Lyzzy and I would like *you* to talk about it, Philippe
    [2:15pm] lyzzy: i like the idea to look about people or groups or entities that are responsible for single tasks
    [2:15pm] lyzzy: but i am not sure, if these task are stated clear enough
    [2:15pm] Bodnotbod: I agree with Lyzzy's point here.
    [2:16pm] Ziko left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
    [2:16pm] Philippe|Wiki: lyzzy: I think you have a good point. So let's look at it from what my role is... my job title is "Facilitator", which Eekim and I have interpreted to mean that my role is to help you - the movement, the chapters, the Foundation - determine how to get from here to there.
    [2:16pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: I could go all day on what I think we should do, but that's not - i believe - the best thing. I think the best thing is for you (the movement) to figure out what to do with the proposals.
    [2:16pm] lyzzy: that's fine. so where is the starting point for the "who does what" disvussion?
    [2:17pm] Philippe|Wiki: lyzzy: I think you just defined it... let's state the tasks.
    [2:17pm] lyzzy:
    [2:17pm] Philippe|Wiki: So what do you think the starting point should be? What tasks do we need to get accomplished, knowing where we are now?
    [2:17pm] Bodnotbod: OK, Philippe... then - if it were up to me - I'd like all the recommendations to be discussed AT GREAT LENGTH - by the WMF and for them to provide detailed feedback on them and whether there are any they love and any they loathe.
    [2:18pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: are the recommendations all WMF purview? I'm not sure they are. Many of them are project specific, aren't they?
    [2:18pm] Bodnotbod: Um... off the top of my head I'd say no. But it's a few weeks since I did my reading of them all. I'll just check something; be right back.
    [2:19pm] Philippe|Wiki: My feeling is that the WMF, as an entity, doesn't really have the authority to dictate some of the things that were proposed - nor should it.
    [2:20pm] Philippe|Wiki: lyzzy: back to you, though: where would you start?
    [2:20pm] lyzzy: but then project-specific proposals shoul be discussed within the projects
    [2:20pm] lyzzy: outside the strategy-wiki
    [2:20pm] Philippe|Wiki: lyzzy: I couldn't possibly agree with you more.
    [2:20pm] Philippe|Wiki: I absolutely agree.
    [2:20pm] Philippe|Wiki: So, who's going to do that? Who's responsible for that?
    [2:20pm] Bodnotbod: OK, I'd say the recommendations I most care about are not project specific: here's my overview...
    [2:20pm] Bodnotbod:
    [2:22pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: Actually, I think a lot of these actually have been discussed at great length, and maybe we've done a poor job of communicating that. For instance, the China one has been significantly discussed. So has volunteer recognition, social features, tools.... those are all in the plan for things that Foundation will take on.
    [2:22pm] Bodnotbod: For project specific proposals I'd tell the people that thought them up to sell their idea to their project. For example, on en:wp we have this page:
    [2:22pm] Bodnotbod:
    [2:23pm] Philippe|Wiki: Advocacy Agenda has been specifically excluded from the Foundation's role: the Foundation won't do it, but that doesn't mean chapters shouldn't: in fact, it means Chapters are better positioned to do it than the Foundation is.
    [2:23pm] Philippe|Wiki: (The Dutch and German chapters have taken a lead in EU based lobbying, I believe)
    [2:23pm] Bodnotbod: That's good to hear. Hurrah!
    [2:23pm] lyzzy: yes, they have started to do that
    [2:23pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: as for project specific proposals... I agree. I really wish someone would own them and take them to the projects for discussion.
    [2:24pm] Bodnotbod: When you say (for example) volunteer recognition and social features have been discussed "at great length" - who by? And can I access those discussions?
    [2:25pm] lyzzy: you will need some kind of advokate for each proposal to do that
    [2:25pm] Philippe|Wiki: So, Bodnotbod, I think maybe the take-away for me here is that we haven't done a great job of communicating that the stuff that's written in the Foundation's 2010-2015 plan ( is what the Foundation intends to own. So what will the chapters own? What will invidivual volunteers own?
    [2:25pm] Philippe|Wiki: The recomednations are a fantastic place to start to look for pieces that people are willing to advocate for, as lyzzy says.
    [2:25pm] lyzzy: he should be part of the community which is envolved
    [2:25pm] Philippe|Wiki: So are proposals.
    [2:26pm] Philippe|Wiki: lyzzy: can you give us any feel for the German chapter's strategic planning process? Is there any overlap? Significant differences?
    [2:27pm] lyzzy: it is different of course and it is focused on our five thematic ressorts
    [2:27pm] lyzzy: maybe it is helpful to post a short summary on the startegy wiki again
    [2:28pm] Philippe|Wiki: I think that would be really fantastic, lyzzy
    [2:28pm] lyzzy: i think i can do that tomorrow
    [2:28pm] Philippe|Wiki: So, Bodnotbod... to go back to your concerns: for those recommendations that are project based, how do we get someone to pick them up and build support around them?
    [2:29pm] Philippe|Wiki: (by the way, i'm not being socratic, or asking questions to which I already know the answers... Eekim and I go through these questions about 50 times a week, and we don't know the answers. We're counting on you, and lyzzy, and all the others who are engaged to know the answers or come up with them as a group)
    [2:29pm] Bodnotbod: Philippe, that 'priorities' link.... what sort of stage of drafting is that page at? Where, say 10 = nobody should edit it and 1 = "oh, we just threw that out there for discussion."?
    [2:30pm] Philippe|Wiki: The section on what the Foundation will do is now pretty well set in stone. The sections for the chapters, and individuals, are not.
    [2:30pm] lyzzy: if i only know some answers ...
    [2:30pm] Philippe|Wiki: they're wide open
    [2:30pm] Bodnotbod: OK.
    [2:30pm] Bodnotbod: Um, I'm just writing some notes... I'll try and answer your question in a moment.
    [2:30pm] Philippe|Wiki: lyzzy: if we knew all the answers, we could make a fortune
    [2:31pm] Philippe|Wiki: lyzzy + Philippe|Wiki Strategy Consultant, LLC.
    [2:31pm] lyzzy: or just stop working
    [2:31pm] lyzzy: sounds boring
    [2:31pm] lyzzy:
    [2:31pm] Philippe|Wiki: it really does, doesn't it?
    [2:32pm] Philippe|Wiki: I was saying to Eugene the other day... I really admire the folks at Bridgespan who live strategy day in and day out... you have to really love it.
    [2:32pm] Philippe|Wiki: I love the community part of my job - stuff like this and the wiki work... but the research, data, strategy writing? Blech.
    [2:33pm] Philippe|Wiki: lyzzy: will you be at the chapters meeting in April?
    [2:33pm] Bodnotbod: Philippe... I would suggest that the best way to get project-specific proposals off the ground is to create a page on Strat wiki giving guidance about how to do it and making that highly visible. Then people on the Strat wiki can draft a "best practice" for approaching their project. However...
    [2:34pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: I think that's a great idea. If I start the page, will you help me flesh it out?
    [2:34pm] lyzzy: Philippe|Wiki: yes, i will be there
    [2:34pm] Philippe|Wiki: lyzzy: it will be good to see you again
    [2:34pm] Bodnotbod: ...I would suggest that proposers might feel rather deflated in that they thought by contributing it to Strat they were doing something not possible on their own wiki. Or to put it another way; they will think "WHAT!? But... but... I could have just done that myself 6 months ago!!!"
    [2:35pm] lyzzy: and i was thinking about putting something from the strategy process to the agenda
    [2:35pm] Ziko joined the chat room.
    [2:35pm] lyzzy: Philippe|Wiki: we should go out for a drink again
    [2:35pm] Ziko: sorry, connectivity problems
    [2:35pm] Bodnotbod: Hey, no organising dates during office hours
    [2:35pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: I think that's a really valid point. So what we'd need to do is frame it in such a way as to make it clear what was gained through the process: the clarify of ideas, the understanding of how things overlap, the understanding of movement roles...
    [2:36pm] lyzzy: ok
    [2:36pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: lyzzy can ask me out if she wants
    [2:36pm] Philippe|Wiki: We had a ball in Buenos Aries one night
    [2:36pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko: welcome back
    [2:36pm] Philippe|Wiki: (Ziko, I'll post a log so you can see the discussion you missed)
    [2:36pm] Ziko: thanks
    [2:37pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: the other thing that happened on strategy wiki is that we managed - sort of historically, actually - to get the people in the same place at the same time to discuss this stuff.
    [2:38pm] Philippe|Wiki: There were voices missing, of course. I wish there'd been a stronger presence from the Foundation (other than Eekim and myself, who sort of fell into the role of speaking for the Foundation while also trying to facilitate discussion), and I wish there had been more presence from developing chapters...
    [2:38pm] Philippe|Wiki: I really really wish there had been more presence from smaller projects
    [2:38pm] Bodnotbod: Hmm. I think I need to spend some time with that 'priorities' document in order to grasp exactly where we are. As for fleshing out pages, Philippe, yes I'll be happy to contribute; perhaps you can drop me a link on my Strat talk page when you've set something up?
    [2:38pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: I'll do that.
    [2:38pm] Bodnotbod: OK, jolly good.
    [2:39pm] Philippe|Wiki: The point that I wish I'd been able to get across to smaller projects is: this is your chance to make the case... tell us what you need... so we can help find someone to own that.
    [2:39pm] Philippe|Wiki: I wasn't really successful in that. Wiktionary showed up, and I think we were able to really galvanize some support around the things that they need.
    [2:40pm] Philippe|Wiki: We had a really strong presence from Wikiversity early on, but it sort of fizzled.
    [2:40pm] Bodnotbod: I definitely appreciate the ownership aspect. That will help Get Things Done. I'm just slightly unnerved at the moment in that I'm... sceptical about how much of the 'priorities' document was driven by the recommendations.
    [2:40pm] Philippe|Wiki: Although, lyzzy, did I hear that the german chapter is considering helping to underwrite a wikiversity testing server?
    [2:41pm] lyzzy: yes, but i am not sure about the details
    [2:41pm] Philippe|Wiki: I <3 that.
    [2:41pm] Philippe|Wiki: i really love love love that a chapter is stepping up and supporting a project like that.
    [2:41pm] Philippe|Wiki: I think it's a great example of the movement roles conversation. A need was identified, and a chapter stepped up and said "sure, we'll help with that..."
    [2:42pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: well, it's important to remember that the priorities document is really three documents: Foundation priorities, Chapter priorities, and Individual contributor priorities.
    [2:43pm] Philippe|Wiki: Chapter priorities and Individual priorities are not done - they can be driven as much or as little as those groups want by the recommendations. The Foundation priorities were developed at the same time as the recommendations, so the recommendations had a strong influence in them, but the Foundation priorities are, ultimately, driven by the Board and (to some extent) delegated to the Executive Director. So, the Board sets what they want their priorities to be - while obviously keeping the recommendations in mind.
    [2:45pm] Bodnotbod: OK. Actually I do see that some key points on the page link to the recommendations. I will need to give it more of a look so I'll reserve making any rash judgements. (I like to make my rash judgements in peace and quiet).
    [2:45pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: that's the difference between you and I. I like to make my rash judgments loudly and obnoxiously. I figure I can always apologize later.... <grin>
    [2:45pm] Bodnotbod: :oD
    [2:46pm] Philippe|Wiki: Hey Ziko.... you still with us?
    [2:46pm] Ziko: yes
    [2:46pm] Ziko: I wondered what such a document like the ind. contr. prior. will be
    [2:46pm] Philippe|Wiki: I've seen you around, but I don't know anything about you. Are you comfortable telling us your main project, and whether you're with a chapter, or a contributor without a chapter, or what?
    [2:47pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko: good question. You'll notice that "Implications for the contributors" is kind of... well, blank. I think maybe I'm wondering the same thing.
    [2:47pm] Ziko: Philippe, I am now writing a text book in German how to become a Wikipedian, and I stick mostly with the Dutch chapter
    [2:47pm] Ziko: Though I am member of NL and DE both
    [2:48pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko: Great. Fantastic, actually. I have a ton of respect for so many people in the Dutch chapter.... and the Germans are great, of course, especially lyzzy because she drinks with me
    [2:48pm] Bodnotbod: Philippe, one of the links you posted earlier was input from Eekim (on the Village Pump, I think)... he said he will be making more posts; can I encourage him and you to maybe post something here (where a few of us have been milling about not quite knowing what to do):
    [2:48pm] Bodnotbod:
    [2:48pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: noted, i've been intending to, and got sick over last week and didn't get to it. I'll make that a priority.
    [2:48pm] Philippe|Wiki: Good point.
    [2:48pm] Ziko: so I am great twice
    [2:48pm] lyzzy: Philippe|Wiki: not the only thing we are good at
    [2:49pm] Bodnotbod: Even if its just to post a few links to where the main activity will now be taking place... because a few people there are feeling a bit "in limbo".
    [2:49pm] Philippe|Wiki: lyzzy: i would never presume to imply it... you know, lyzzy, i was born in Germany
    [2:49pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: you're right. We sort of created that thing (the strategy task force), turned it on, and didn't point it in any direction.
    [2:49pm] Bodnotbod: OK, that would help *a* *lot*.
    [2:50pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko: from your perspective, what do you think the individual contributors document might look like?
    [2:50pm] Philippe|Wiki: Can you help me brainstorm that a little, because I really am sort of lost... it seems to me that it could take on a different model for each person.
    [2:50pm] Ziko: Philippe: I dont know what is your intention. A document directed to the foundation or the chapters is one thing.
    [2:50pm] Ziko: But a document directed to ind. contributors is something else
    [2:50pm] Philippe|Wiki: WEll, it's more a document directed FROM the Foundation, and FROM the chapters...
    [2:51pm] Philippe|Wiki: to the world as a whole, and our movement specifically
    [2:51pm] Ziko: because they are volunteers who make their decisions personally
    [2:51pm] Philippe|Wiki: It's the Chapters saying "This is what we're going to do", and the Foundation saying "This is what we're going to do." Where I'm stuck is, how do we have a bajillion volunteers say "This is what *I* am going to do, who's with me?"
    [2:51pm] Ziko: Oh, you mean: We the Wikipedians, creating a more and more perfect encyclopaedia, ask the world to...?
    [2:51pm] Philippe|Wiki: I don't know quite how to do that.
    [2:52pm] Ziko: well, a chapter can decide what it is going to do, but "the individuals" do not exist in that way
    [2:52pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko, more like, We the Wikipedians, creating a more and more perfect encyclopedia, think THIS stuff would be really cool to do and we're going to do it.
    [2:52pm] Ziko: like that Wikipedians are signing a self commitment something?
    [2:52pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko, so how do we delineate what the role of the individual contributor is? For instance, I'm not a member of any chapter. I'm a Wikipedian.
    [2:53pm] Philippe|Wiki: What's my role in the grand scheme of things? I know what *I* personally am I going to do.... I've got ten or twelve proposals and a couple of recommendations that I'm going to take ownership of and try to bulid support around....
    [2:53pm] Philippe|Wiki: but that's just me.
    [2:53pm] Philippe|Wiki: How do we make others feel empowered to do that?
    [2:54pm] Bodnotbod: I think it's difficult to get volunteers to commit to anything they are not inclined to. People just seem to find their niche. I think even the "less rewarding" jobs hold some mystical engagement for someone when they're doing them. For example...
    [2:54pm] Ziko: A chapter can decide about its priorities, an individual... it will come up as recommendations from (strategy task force?) directed to individuals?
    [2:54pm] Ziko: I may not understand what you mean by that document, still
    [2:54pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko, no, I'd rather see it come as recommendations from individuals to the movement. Maybe what you said before... a self-commitment.... maybe what we should do is just encourage people to write what they commit to do.
    [2:54pm] Bodnotbod: ...patrolling recent changes with Huggle (which just automates vandal fighting etc) is a filthy, dull and unenjoyable job but it takes me my mind off things when I'm doing it, so it's like valium, which has its own fascination.
    [2:55pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: that's how I am with CAT:CSD
    [2:56pm] Ziko: From the basis. This is a document written by who, and directed to whom? A collaboratively written document of the Wikipedians, saying what we Wikipedians are supposed to do?
    [2:56pm] Philippe|Wiki: yes.
    [2:56pm] Ziko: and if later anybody does that, he can claim that that is what the movement wants?
    [2:56pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko: well, that's the rub, isn't it?
    [2:56pm] Ziko: Hm
    [2:57pm] Ziko: I am not sure how that could be...
    [2:57pm] Philippe|Wiki: I can claim what MY role in it is... and we know the chapters will lay down their role and the Foundation it's role.... so maybe a self-commitment statement is A Good Thing. "This is what I pledge to do as part of this strategy."
    [2:57pm] Ziko: As I said, a chapter can make a decision what to do and then it uses it forces to do that
    [2:57pm] Ziko: like a scout's ten commandments?
    [2:57pm] howief joined the chat room.
    [2:57pm] Ziko: I shall not bite newbies
    [2:58pm] Bodnotbod: Like you, Philippe, I plan to take my proposals back to en:wp and see if I can get some action/excitement/movement around them. I hadn't considered it before tonight but I could also find myself trying that with other people's proposals I have a fondness for too.
    [2:58pm] Philippe|Wiki: <grin> Ziko - that ties directly to a community health recommendation.
    [2:58pm] Ziko: I shall say something nice to my fellow wikipedians twice a week, at least
    [2:58pm] Ziko: hi howief
    [2:58pm] Ziko: But that would be more like a code of conduct
    [2:58pm] howief: hi Ziko
    [2:59pm] Philippe|Wiki: Ziko, maybe that's what we're talking about?
    [2:59pm] Philippe|Wiki: I don't know... i should think more about that.
    [2:59pm] Ziko: okay
    [2:59pm] Philippe|Wiki: I don't have a feel for it.
    [2:59pm] • che0 has joined as well
    [2:59pm] che0: hi
    [2:59pm] Philippe|Wiki: hi che0
    [2:59pm] lyzzy: hi che0
    [2:59pm] Ziko: hello che0
    [2:59pm] Philippe|Wiki: Unfortunately, I have to duck out to another meeting... but I'm going to post the log of the conversation that just happened...
    [3:00pm] Philippe|Wiki: if you all keep talking, will someone fill me in on what you discuss?
    [3:00pm] Bodnotbod: Maybe if we came up with a series of "statement user boxes"... then people could add them to go with their other boxen. People already have ones saying "I help people" or "I adopt users"; if we thought up some on Strat wiki perhaps they could gain some interest and people just sign up to ones they believe in?
    [3:00pm] Philippe|Wiki: and I've got several action items from here for things I need to do
    [3:00pm] Ziko: Philippe, fine, so i may will understand what we have just talked about
    [3:00pm] Ziko:
    [3:00pm] Philippe|Wiki: Bodnotbod: that's a FANTASTIC idea.
    [3:00pm] Philippe|Wiki: love it.
    [3:00pm] Bodnotbod: OK, I'll make a note and try and start something up.
    [3:00pm] Ziko: like a scout's commandments list, in a do it yourself kit
    [3:01pm] che0: Philippe|Wiki: Just as I saw you -- you wrote me (=as chair of WM-CZ, I guess) earlier you'd like to talk to me, but I don't think there's much I can tell you about big strategy stuff.
    [3:01pm] Ziko: if you don't like to help elderly ladies to cross the Wikipedia, drop it
    [3:01pm] Philippe|Wiki: <grin> Ziko: "Your personal creed, just as water"
    [3:01pm] che0: Philippe|Wiki: So I'm just lingering here in case I can be of help some time.
    [3:01pm] Philippe|Wiki: che0: Yes, I'd still like to talk to you and fill you in on where we are, though...
    [3:01pm] Philippe|Wiki: can I email you and set a time?
    [3:01pm] peteforsyth left the chat room. (Quit: peteforsyth)
    [3:01pm] Ziko: but i wonder what that has to do with strategy
    [3:02pm] Philippe|Wiki: By the way, the log will be at